Spine troubles and pain for years
 

Dear Folks,

I am a 56 year old guy that has been one of the disasters of Chymopapain.
In 1987 I ruptured one disc (L4-L5) and S1-L5 was bulging badly. As I was uninformed I followed the advise of my mother who had the same treatment in the mid 70's with good results(? thats what she told me. Don't get the wrong impression I still love my 80 year old mother ) Off we went to see a Doctor who was supposed to be a specialist in this field. I must say my wife was very skeptical.Without any testing only a discogram at the time I was injected with Chymopapain. I was in terrible pain for 3 days after. Apparently the Doctor said to my wife if only I knew how bad the discs were I wouldn't have touched him. Too late the damage was done.
Within 6 weeks I began to have peripheal nerve disruption,tingling and numbness. Also began to lose the strength in my legs, could only climb one flight of stairs without having to sit down.
Rang his majesty,the doctor, to ask if this could be the result of the injections? Oh, no just come and see me. We went to visit him and he showed us the discogram which clearly showed a ruptured disc with dye leaking into the spinal canal. We did not understand the implications of this even though he possibly did. Since this time he has shut down and all records were destroyed.
The pain and weakness increased and after many different spinal surgeon visits who all looked at CT and MRI scans and said sorry we feel sorry for you but can't help, I was sent to a neurologist who hospitalised me and after many tests diagnosed Multiple Sclerosis.
I have now lived for best part of 25 years with pain all blamed on MS. I live on Endone(oxycodone),Gabapentin plus anti inflammatories etc.
After my first hip replacement 2 years ago the back pain has increased and will have to do something about it as I have a Business to run and a family to provide for, 6 children and 10 grandchildren, the oldest boys run the business with my guidance.
The surgeon I am under has suggested lower spine stabilisation to stop nerve irritation and thus allow me to sit or stand for periods of time with less pain.
I will be getting further opinions after my next MRI scan which will be in the next week or so.
Sorry for all the ramble but thought it best for you to know a few details.
Can I send an electronic copy of the MRI to anyone for another opinion as I need help urgently but am skeptical with spine surgery after my experiences?

Thanks for you time and look forward to your help.

Regards
Jimmy

Jimmy, I'm sorry about your experience. Believe it or not, Chymopapaine is making a resurgence. Many of the problems experienced with it have to do with inappropriate use; either wrong indication or gross over-application of the enzyme. (If 800 units is good, 4,000 must be better!)

I'm not sure I understand. Do you have MS or are your problems mistakenly attributed to MS?

If your problems are caused by nerve damage related to the chymo, it's hard to imaging making any progress with that. Having said that, all too often, people with one reason known for their problems often have other problems are ignored because nobody will look past the original reason.

You are really young to have been caught in the chymo debacle. 10 grandkids... wow. I'm 54 and just on my first... 10 sounds great!

I'll send you a PM.

Mark

Spine troubles and pain for years
 

Mark,thanks for your reply. Very interesting regarding resurgence of Chymopapain.

I often wonder whether there is something in what you say about the MS. Are they mistaking symptoms of the nerve damage for MS? My last visit to St Vincents hospital Sydney,12 months ago, their top MS neurologist reconfirmed the MS diagnosis, what do I do?

I understand from your comments that you didn't think that spine stabilization would do anything to aleviate the pain from chymopapain nerve damage. In other words I am stuck with the pain,is this what you think?
Don't be scared to be honest with me! I love people that tell you straight what they really think.

Maybe after the MRI exam I can tell you more what is going on, like you say there maybe something else that is causing trouble. You seem to have had your fair share of troubles.

As to being young with so many grandchildren, thankyou for your comments,I often don't think 56 is young but as you say it is.I really enjoy them all, thankful to be blessed with them.

Thanks again for your help.
Jimmy.

re MS and additional/other
 

Hi Jimmy,
Sorry you had bad results w/chymopapaine. I had a friend who injured her back when I did and she had this and was pain free, went on to have several children with her first one not even creating any labor pains except some backache when she had to go into the hospital for delivery! I had wanted this treatment but was advised against it because I was told that an overzealous treatment could destroy more than the part of the disc it was intended to treat. As it stands that's sort of what happened w/a percutaneous discectomy I had on L4 a while after my open discectomy on L5S1. I too was taking Gabapentin for 12 years for neuropathies and pain medication for the last 10 though largely untreated w/medications for many years both before,during and after surgeries.

What I wanted to say however is that it's quite possible you have MS and you have other problems with your spine. How was the MS diagnosed? Like Mark I wasn't sure if you meant that is still your diagnosis and/or you were misdiagnosed and/or you have that and additional spinal/hip probs. Which type of MS have you been diagnosed with?

Perhaps there's other levels that can be helped by further treatment/intervention surgical or non so it's best to do what you're doing which is seeking opinions and then deciding on what seems most appropriate for your clinical picture.

Good luck w/this. I have a friend who has the progressive relapsing form of MS and has had demylinazation (sp)on his left side grossly noted in left lower extremity/leg/foot now and near inability to walk. Because of the changes structurally his gait has been affected for many years now and has caused back and hip problems as well.

He was misdiagnosed at first as only having disc problems in his neck where his sympotms first began (and affected his left arm re weakness) and for about 5 years continued to be misdiagnosed. I believe he was properly diagnosed about 13 years ago although currently he's in the process of needing to have his back pain treated as well.

Good that you found this forum and Mark who hopefully can help you figure out with whom you may want to further consult.

Hi Jimmy and welcome to the forum,

I have no idea what Chymopapain is but is sounds controversial.

Also just want to add my comment that there seems to be a coincidence here. I understand your MS diagnosis was confirmed but ?????

I do not know your circumstances but perhaps a top neuroligist like Dr. Baumbach (call Mark) would be in your best interest at this point. I would assume you'd proceed in different directions if your pain/nerve problems were caused by this treatment vs. MS.

Whatever direction you take, I do wish you luck. BTW, I've heard bee stings are quite beneficial to nerve and pain problems associated with MS. You might want to look into this also.

Dale