Peyton Manning Fusion

cp7959 · #1 (**permalink**) 09-19-2011, 02:16 PM

For those who do not know who Peyton Manning is, he is one of the greatest NFL Quarterbacks of all Time and plays for the Indianapolis Colts. Over the past few years he was having Cervical problems. At the end of last season he had a Foramenotomy. Well that didn't seem to help to much. So a few weeks ago he under went a Cervical Fusion.

This guy make's 10's of millions of dollars a year and is probably worth well over $100 million.He has access to the best surgeons in the world. Before his fusion he consulted with several spine surgeons.

So here's my question. Why did ADR never come up as a solution for him? Why did all the surgeons he consulted with recommend Fusion? Is there something that us potential ADR patients want that is really unrealistic to the vast majority? You got to think if ADR was the right thing to do,Manning would have had it done and by the best surgeons.

I know everyone is different, but appreciate any thoughts.

Maria · #2 (**permalink**) 09-19-2011, 02:43 PM

That he was even a candidate for ADR surgery? Maybe that's the reason he didn't have this type of surgery.

cp7959 · #3 (**permalink**) 09-19-2011, 03:49 PM

The reports on Manning where a Herniated Disk. So unless there is something that is not being reported, ADR would seem like an option?

I've often wondered what are the contradictions to not having ADR surgery? Other than a slipped vertebrae. Many Dr's that are mentioned on these boards will operate on most cases.

I can't speak for everyone, but I have a feeling that single level fusions may just be the right fix for most people. We here the horror stories on the internet, Part of that could be all the success stories have moved on with their lives.

My own personal experience is I am doing much better with the fusions in my neck than I did with the ADR's. But then again my ADR's where at Stenum. My fusions and ADR revisions where here in the states.

However if I had to do a lower back I think I would go for the ADR.

Maria · #4 (**permalink**) 09-19-2011, 04:56 PM

I tried to look up Peyton Mannings surgical status information that might have been written about on the web (if it may have been) and was unsuccessful as I'm experiencing some computer probs so I wouldn't know with regard to why he didn't have ADR vs. fusion.

From what I've read there seems to be a fair number of good outcomes with cervical ADR. Lumbar ADR seems to go well for some and not for others.

As with most spine surgery I tend to think that's how it goes~ some works well for some and not for others.

Nice to hear you're doing much better with the fused level(s) and hope that you continue to do well! Thanks for adding that info!

dshobbies · #5 (**permalink**) 09-19-2011, 05:22 PM

The truth is we don't know what his reasons for choosing fusion were and probably never will. His specifics are his to share or not.

However, my first thought - especially if he plans to remain in the sport is that probably ADRs can't take the abuse that solid bone can. His head will be yanked in all directions and hit hard. What would happen to an ADR when it's forced to go where it doesn't belong?

Just my thoughts - Dale

phenom34 · #6 (**permalink**) 11-16-2011, 02:09 AM

Im guessing it has to do with strength. They know successful fusions can be quite rigid, they arent sure exactly how rigid ADR's are in NFL collisions.

mmglobal · #7 (**permalink**) 11-16-2011, 03:41 AM

We don't know whether or not he was a candidate for ADR.

Sadly, most American surgeons have been slow to adopt ADR. IMHO, this is primarily because of reimbursement issues.

There are a lot of world famous medical institutions that are beyond state of the art for many illnesses. People go to these clinics, expecting that they will get state of the art care. If you have cancer, the Mayo clinic may be the place to be, but for spine problems, they are just another surgery mill. Still, people flock there because of the name.

All over the country, there are surgeons who's patients think that they are world fameous because the have heads of state and professional athletes come to them. This does not mean that you'll get state of the art care from them, it just means that they have become prominent surgeons.

I have ADR's in my neck and lumbar spine. I don't think I'd want to play pro-football, with or without ADR's. With my Dr. Zeegers lumbar surgery in 2002 I was told, "you have no restrictions except, no contact sports at the professional level."

I don't believe that the decision making process of a professional football player has much of a relationship to the average patient's decision making process.

Mark

cherylstewart67 · #8 (**permalink**) 11-19-2011, 01:26 AM

I was told by a sport medical doctor that these sugeons do what they know. They most likely suggested fusion because that was what they knew and they failed the patient in this case. Manning trusted them; but he will most likely regret it! May be he did not do any research. But I promise you that they told him he'd most likely play again with fusion vs adr because they would be concerned about an adr displacement during an injury and that a fusion would be more solid. I truely believe his playing days are over because of ajacent level DDD that most likely will set in. Sorry, just what I think...Hope I am wrong.

Aaron · #9 (**permalink**) 11-19-2011, 03:20 PM

Well for Peyton Manning he had a minimally invasive procedure prior to 2010 season and played. He had same again this year but not as successful so they had to fuse it. I know the surgeon who did all the surgury was Dr. Richard Fessler and from what I read he does do some ADR surguries. As for the choice to fuse or ADR I am sure Peyton choose the one that gave him the best ability to return to football. He may have had the option of both. For him I am sure the decicsion making process involved many components. The doctor could not force him to choose ADR and give up football, even though that may have been presented with the best chance for pain reduction.
Of all the football, baseball, etc that had back problems and returned to play after surgury all I have read of had a fusion.

cherylstewart67 · #10 (**permalink**) 11-20-2011, 08:41 PM

I was under the impression that if it's a single level it's is usually the best option. But listen! I am so totally jaded. I have had a bad time with fusion so I am not for it. I am also upset that I was not given all my options when I had my surgery. So it's not fair for me to feel that way towards all doctors that do it. But it just makes sence to me to preserve the body's function and motion in the most natural way you can and fusion is not it. I had seen interview with service members that had adr and went back to work for the military and were so glad that they did not have fusion as they were told they would most likely not be able to re-enlist depending on their m.o.s. Single level patients do better than most. I still say that it will cause ajacent level issues for him later. I hope that he is one of the fortunate ones.

ADR seeker · #11 (**permalink**) 11-21-2011, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dshobbies

The truth is we don't know what his reasons for choosing fusion were and probably never will. His specifics are his to share or not.

However, my first thought - especially if he plans to remain in the sport is that probably ADRs can't take the abuse that solid bone can. His head will be yanked in all directions and hit hard. What would happen to an ADR when it's forced to go where it doesn't belong?

Just my thoughts - Dale

That's what I think.

With the M6 and the Neo Disk there is still metal hardware. I think that the NeoDisk would have been his best choice. I think his career is over.

What they should do is install the NeoDisk using screws made from bone. If surgeons were smart they would use a tap and die set to make threads and then screw the disk in to place.

The other thing is this. Even rich people get bad medical advice. If Peyton had gone to England and had Nick Booree install th Neo Disk it would be big news and Americans would be clamoring for it. Time will tell if his fusion works. I suspect that it won't.

Also if an ADR were to fail or fail catastrophically it would be bad press for the manufacturer and as we know the ball and socket designs available in the US have higher failure rates than the M6 or the Neo Disk do to their less than elegant design.

At this point Manning should retire. Why risk being paralyzed?

Aaron · #12 (**permalink**) 11-21-2011, 02:28 PM

I agree retirement probably in future, but if the stories are true Peyton has a competative drive that rivals most. And this is why I think in terms of bad medical advice, we have to look at big picture. If the option to have ADR and retire or have fusion and possibly play were on the table, it would seem that Peyton would decide to have the fusion. The surgeon cannot make him do one of the other. I am not defending he doctor, even though he seems to be a pretty good one, but regardless of ADR or fusion with the best surgeon in the world, there will be failures. By that same token if he would have went and had ADR in england and not played, then had to get revision surgury it would have had the opposite effect on ADR and neodisc. IT is an unfortunate part of our spine lives.

Aaron · #13 (**permalink**) 11-21-2011, 02:48 PM

http://www.nuvasive.com/includes/pdf...estimonial.pdf

Tito Ortiz also had fusion and both fighters returned to fight in the UFC. I would assume these guys take more punishment than Peyton does and they made the comeback.

ADR seeker · #14 (**permalink**) 11-22-2011, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron

http://www.nuvasive.com/includes/pdf...estimonial.pdf

Tito Ortiz also had fusion and both fighters returned to fight in the UFC. I would assume these guys take more punishment than Peyton does and they made the comeback.

I don't think that MMA fighter suffer the neck trauma that football players do. Those helmets are a big part of the problem. Football is a collision sport with whiplash injuries occurring all the time. They should remove the face masks.

I read about Nate Quarry getting a new procedure but it was in his low back. I suspect that the Neo Disk would be safe for Manning after it fully fuses.

jchebert1979 · #15 (**permalink**) 11-23-2011, 01:55 AM

I didn't have a chance to read all of the replies to this thread so please forgive me if this has been posted but Peyton manning did go to Germany to receive treatment recently. It was of all things a discussion on whether the treatment would be considered performance enhancing since it's not offered here in the US.

I do want to say that in the discussion it was not clear as to what procedure would be done. Perhaps stem cells, but they were not clear. While I know what losing something you love to pain can do to a person, I doubt that, given his accomplishments in football, he would be wise to return. Then again, he may not have reached a level of pain (that I never thought possible) that I have.