The Politics and Economics of Orthopedic Medicine

[ADR seeker]

I'm sure some of you will tell me to put on my tin hat but I'll risk dealing with the ridicule.

There is no valid reason for why the latest generations of of ADR are not available to Americans on American soil. Many of you have heard of the M6 ADR if you have not heard of this disk here's the 411. The M6 acts like the real thing. It absorbs shock and provide normal mobility of the vertebral joint. It has been used worldwide for many years and it is far better that fusions or the old ADRs.

I called Spinal Kenetics the manufacturer of the M6 and I was told that they cannot afford the costs of clinical trials. I was told that the M6 has proven to be excellent in worldwide use. The M6 is an American made disk.

As good as the M6 is the American made Neo Disk may be even better for many reasons. It is a simpler install and it has even less chance of migration and it will fuse better and even if it won't fuse it will still function normally.



The problem with these new ADRs is that they are minimally disruptive. In other words they have a faster and more complete recovery and revision surgeries are rare hence they are more cost effective.

The back pain industry is huge and there is all sorts of allopathic treatment much of which is dangerous hocus pocus such as nerve ablation and some PT and pain management.

Think of it like this. What if there were a vaccine for gum disease, crooked teeth and cavities? How big would the dental industry be? The new US made ADRs will put dent in back pain industry profits simply because they work really well for many patients and unlike fusions and old ADR the prevent the DDD cascade effect.

These disks should have been available in 2003 or earlier but because bad medicine and disease management is far more lucrative that cures Americans are allowed to suffer needless to satisfy the money lust of a corporate medical industry.

ADVOCATE!

The FDA is controlled by the US congress and the US congress is the lap dog or the medical industry. Strenuously petition your representatives.

It's YOUR body!

If you want one of these ADRs demand it. ACT UP! If you trust your doctor to be competent and honest then you should be allowed to have him implant this disk if in his and your medical judgement it is what you need to be restored to good health. Not allowing us this is a form of Nazism. Yeah, I know that word get used too much but in this case it's appropriate. Don't allow them to make us victims of medical greed!

[dshobbies]

No one will disagree with you regarding the politics behind the entire medical industry in the US. What should be and what is are worlds apart. The fault lies not only with government controlled organizations but also with private insurance companies which, in my opinion, wield much more power, even to the dismay of the entire medical profession. Basically, money talks and the rest of us walk.

However, you lost me in your summation!

Dale

[mmglobal]

ADR Seeker, welcome to the forum.

Please tell us more about yourself... are you a patient looking for solutions?

The M6 and NeoDisc are interesting designs. As with all of the devices, features and differences from one to the next.... all come with advantages and disadvantages. So much of what is said about them and what we initially understand, is marketing spin. It's difficult to separate the important issues from the spin.

I wish I could write more about these devices now. I originally wrote about the M6 from SAS-7 in Berlin. See here: Mark's SAS7 Blog.

Interestingly enough, migration is one of the problems with Neo Disc because the jacket is so flexible and what keeps the core in place is the jacket. It is a beautiful design and is so simple and somewhat smaller invasive procedure. (This may also be something of the marketing spin more than important data because the important work in a disc replacement surgery has to do with getting behind the vertebral bodies to remove osteophytes and decompress the neural structures.)

There is so much more to say... but I have to run.

Again... Welcome!

[ADR seeker]

Originally Posted by mmglobal

ADR Seeker, welcome to the forum.

Please tell us more about yourself... are you a patient looking for solutions?

The M6 and NeoDisc are interesting designs. As with all of the devices, features and differences from one to the next.... all come with advantages and disadvantages. So much of what is said about them and what we initially understand, is marketing spin. It's difficult to separate the important issues from the spin.

I wish I could write more about these devices now. I originally wrote about the M6 from SAS-7 in Berlin. See here: Mark's SAS7 Blog.

Interestingly enough, migration is one of the problems with Neo Disc because the jacket is so flexible and what keeps the core in place is the jacket. It is a beautiful design and is so simple and somewhat smaller invasive procedure. (This may also be something of the marketing spin more than important data because the important work in a disc replacement surgery has to do with getting behind the vertebral bodies to remove osteophytes and decompress the neural structures.)

There is so much more to say... but I have to run.

Again... Welcome!

Thanks,

I can see how an old style ADR can be in many cases such as young herniations be better than a fusion but the ball and socket ADR all over rotate. For me with the problems in my neck the fusion probably would be better than an old syle ADR but it still won't be very good and even with the new ADRs we are still in the orthopedic dark ages IMO. They are not even using motion X-rays as a diagnostic tool.

It's a bit scary when you go to a surgeon and your grasp of the bio mechanics of the spine exceeds theirs. Fixing a spine is more than just stabilization and restoring motion it a combination of the two and many other factors. A motion limiting shock absorbing disk that closely mimic the real thing is probably a better choice for most people.

The best choice would be tissue regeneration and PT that is not rooted in false assumption, pseudo-science and conjecture. Again, we are in the Medical Dark Ages and the brief medical renaissance that came about in the 40's and 50's quickly died when medicine ceased being a profession and morphed into a business and then became the biggest industry in the US.

I need a new cervical spine. C 5-6 is the worst and the cascade continues do to dark ages medicine.

[teg]

Hey Mark,
I will take the opportunity to jump in here because I feel that I am a walking spokesperson for both sciences ADR and Fusion. While fusion of the intervebral bodies of the spine has been the "gold standard", my cervical spine has yet to agree with the ages of wisdom behind this science.

I live with the domino effect from my fusion of c6-c7, yet never questioned the skill of my surgeon. Here in DC, he is listed among the best. Yet, the fusion has left me in a significant amount of pain and a likely future of more surgery.

My three-level ADR by Dr. Bertagnoli changed my life. WHile spine surgery is no panacea, mine was a complete success. I hope that as this forum goes forward, we lear from each other's experience. "what is good for the Government, is good for the poeple. (My two cents.) We are a financially incentived medical society in the US and innovation takes a back seat to progress.

Thelma

[james]

health care in US is all politics.
Why we import so many engineers from China and India, but we do not import many medical doctors ?

US medical system puts so many barriers in front of foreign doctors to make it hard for them to come to US.

Let them come to US and I am the one who decides whether to see them or not.

[ADR seeker]

Originally Posted by dshobbies

No one will disagree with you regarding the politics behind the entire medical industry in the US. What should be and what is are worlds apart. The fault lies not only with government controlled organizations but also with private insurance companies which, in my opinion, wield much more power, even to the dismay of the entire medical profession. Basically, money talks and the rest of us walk.

However, you lost me in your summation!

Dale

I think the medical community is divided. You have your Dr Oz style doctors and a few old timers who became doctors for altruistic reasons. Then you have the hospitalists and organ doctors who are "just following orders" and then you have snakes who say "medical school was expensive I deserve a tone of money and then we have a whole lot of apathy and mediority.

The problem is very complex and MD are certainly not a solution. In the US we pay 3 times the world average for health care and over 20% of the US GDP is health care.

The FDA is controlled by the drug companies.

There is no federal agency that oversees the actions of doctors and hospitals and as a result the third leading cause of death in the US is doctors and that is according to Professor Emeritus Dr Barbara Starfield MD of Johns Hopkins School of public health.

The leading cause if death (although there is data that contradicts it) is the US medical industry.

Today the odd of getting a health care acquired infection are 1 in 10. If hospitals used the Pronvonost protocol there would be almost no infections. Dr Peter Pronvonost is a Noble Prize winner and he also works at Johns Hopkins.

There are over 10 medication errors per day in the average US hospitals and there are three wrong site surgeries a day in the US.

All of the above is just the tip of the iceberg and what I conclude is that even if your doctor wants to have your best interest at heart and be your health care advocate he can't. It's a sleazy culture where disease is not the enemy but a cash cow to be milked.

I recently wrote to some of my state representatives asking them to legalize the M6 and the neo disk. My reasoning is that if California can legalize pot any other state can legalize something much better.

[mmglobal]

Asking them to 'legalize' the M6 and neodisc is asking them to abandon the idea of practicing evidence based medicine. If you want to bring a device to the market, you need to demonstrate the efficacy and safety of the device with CREDIBLE science.

Yes, the FDA sometimes stands in our way and keeps us from having access to life-saving technology. In other cases, it may keep us from jumping into a new technology too soon, before we understand the risks of the technology; keeping us from making a huge mistake. The system is not perfect. I don't even like it, but I do believe we would be much worse off without the much needed oversight of medical device companies. The device manufacturers are not in this for our health.

Also, the metering of access to the technologies comes not only from the FDA. Having proven and approved technologies that insurance companies still call 'experimental' 7 years after approval is of little help, except to the rich.

Yes, there is much to rant about, but not everything is as it seems.

Mark

[Ringo]

You speak wisdom.

The average person thinks to themselves that ADR sounds great....where do I sign up. But, the device must fit the application and not all situations will permit an ADR. A surgeon has to stick to documented evidence and statistical trials that show a device has efficacy and specific application.

Fusion VS. ADR.... both have overlapping application. But, in some instances a fusion might have greater documented efficacy for treatment.

I am certain that there are orthopedic/neurosurgeon offices that you can walk into and the doctor will say you need a posterior fusion with rods. If you ask them if there are any other options, they will say, "No" because they personally don't offer any other options. Now, I think that sucks big time. They won't tell you to go down the street and get a second opion from a guy that is younger or that is doing ADR's. Trust me, this happens all the time. They need to make payments on a new vacation home, buy into a practic and send their kids to elite collages and make sure the glamor wife stays fit or the mistress is happy or the gold leaf wallpaper in the master bath gets put in, or new hair plugs, etc. Now it's not always like that or that dramatic. But, if there is an opening in the surgery schedule, I am here to tell you that that has significant bearing on whether you will have surgery or not. This is all the human side of it. Average person can't immagine this happening but it does. I know this from the horses mouth, not making it up. Sorry for the rant. Peace.

Originally Posted by ADR seeker

I think the medical community is divided. You have your Dr Oz style doctors and a few old timers who became doctors for altruistic reasons. Then you have the hospitalists and organ doctors who are "just following orders" and then you have snakes who say "medical school was expensive I deserve a tone of money and then we have a whole lot of apathy and mediority.

The problem is very complex and MD are certainly not a solution. In the US we pay 3 times the world average for health care and over 20% of the US GDP is health care.

The FDA is controlled by the drug companies.

There is no federal agency that oversees the actions of doctors and hospitals and as a result the third leading cause of death in the US is doctors and that is according to Professor Emeritus Dr Barbara Starfield MD of Johns Hopkins School of public health.

The leading cause if death (although there is data that contradicts it) is the US medical industry.

Today the odd of getting a health care acquired infection are 1 in 10. If hospitals used the Pronvonost protocol there would be almost no infections. Dr Peter Pronvonost is a Noble Prize winner and he also works at Johns Hopkins.

There are over 10 medication errors per day in the average US hospitals and there are three wrong site surgeries a day in the US.

All of the above is just the tip of the iceberg and what I conclude is that even if your doctor wants to have your best interest at heart and be your health care advocate he can't. It's a sleazy culture where disease is not the enemy but a cash cow to be milked.

I recently wrote to some of my state representatives asking them to legalize the M6 and the neo disk. My reasoning is that if California can legalize pot any other state can legalize something much better.

[Maria]

I am certain that there are orthopedic/neurosurgeon offices that you can walk into and the doctor will say you need a posterior fusion with rods. If you ask them if there are any other options, they will say, "No" because they personally don't offer any other options. Now, I think that sucks big time. They won't tell you to go down the street and get a second opion from a guy that is younger or that is doing ADR's. Trust me, this happens all the time. They need to make payments on a new vacation home, buy into a practic and send their kids to elite collages and make sure the glamor wife stays fit or the mistress is happy or the gold leaf wallpaper in the master bath gets put in, or new hair plugs, etc. Now it's not always like that or that dramatic. But, if there is an opening in the surgery schedule, I am here to tell you that that has significant bearing on whether you will have surgery or not. This is all the human side of it. Average person can't immagine this happening but it does. I know this from the horses mouth, not making it up. Sorry for the rant. Peace.

Have personally been down this road myself while out surgeon shopping.. and even with having had surgery~ kkkk chinnnnnggggg $$$$$ over ethics way too often it seems

[Ringo]

I appreciate the reply.