Pain meds and working

[Aaron]

I have posted this on other sites, but am yet without a straight answer. After trying to work for a while after hurt ,but having trouble walking, lifting etc ( very manual work) I was advised I needed to quit a 100000 yr job or the rest of my life would be terrible, so after much thought I did and returned to school. Well I am a semester away from grad. and boy am I scared how to handle the spine thing. Do I tell them up front, do I not , I don't want to lie etc. But my biggest fear is this: I have fought this Tspine pain so long without much pain meds and it has really worn me down and beat me, so my doctor finally wants to get me on a pain management program with pain killers. I earlier did not want to do it due to family history of drug addiction, but I am ready now. But if I take a drug test for work, what will happen, there is so many people abusing pain killers in the area that don't need them I am afraid that will make me look bad in the eyes of the employer. If I have prescription will the meds still be reported ? I am grad. in mechanical engineering so not any manual lifting. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Maria]

Back in the day back injuries/surgeries were the kiss of death for an RN so at first I admitted to having back probs. No jobs. But I was then away from work for over a year and thankfully I did start a Masters program in nursing so when I applied for a part time job while in starting my MSN program I explained the time away from work with "study" and I had chosen to work with preemie infants as it would be "light weight work" literally and didn't mention my spine stuff at all. I had not yet had a spine surgery or wasn't on any meds way back then.

After 1st spine surgery there was no way not to admit to it so I did and yet could bend over and touch toes for physical so passed and also during the physical and questioning I just said my back hadn't bothered me since surgery of course I had actually had 2 spine surgeries by this time and the latter one failing and my pain was much worse however I didn't actually have a scar because the 2nd surgery was "percutaneous" or band aid surgery so really the only scar that could be seen was one and it had been well healed.

I did say I wasn't able to sit long or do heavy lifting so I was seeking part time work and that's why at that point I went into a different type of nursing that didn't involve seeing patients at all (telephone triage/advice nurse) so I wasn't lying I just was careful what I said.

Re meds.. I have not worked while on pain medications. I wonder in your field if there is any kind of work with machinery that would preclude the use of medication (do not operate heavy machinery) or precision work for which the label on types of pain medication (may cause drowsiness) might be cause for an employer to be concerned. As I understand if you have a prescription for a medication even if it's an opioid medication and you list it that's not the same as if you were caught lying about your "drug habit" with drug testing.

Then again would the employer hire someone that isn't taking the medication who had the same qualifications and education/experience ... perhaps.. perhaps you'd be the one hired.

I was told that there are many nurses working on pain meds but I don't know whether they already had their positions or were hired after the fact.

Hope some people here will be able to help you out with their answers on this one.

[cherylstewart67]

It would depend on a few things...laws for driving under the influence, what the employer say, and if you can function on the pain meds that they give you. my employer told me that i could not be at work and taking narcotics. so if i have to go back on pain mgt, i will have to quit my job. you have to be unemployed to even file for s.s. disability and it takes up to a year to get. not to mention that you are usually turned down the 1st and 2nd time you apply unless you use an attorney. it's complicated to say the least. I checked my SS benefits if I filed, Id only get $14,000 a year. Who can live on that???

[Hooch]

If they don't drug test, I wouldn't tell them.

I hope the surgeons can get their shit happening and start to get some good results in T-spine ddd. Maybe stem cells will help in the future.

Best wishes.

[Aaron]

"Then again would the employer hire someone that isn't taking the medication who had the same qualifications and education/experience ... perhaps.. perhaps you'd be the one hired."


that is exactly the part I am struggling with. why would an employeer take a chance on someone who is on pain meds if there are 20 others not on them.

[dshobbies]

I've been on both sides of this fence. As an employer, I believe it's against the law to ask about diseases but ok to ask about a medical condition that might interfere with work. This would include your chronic back pain along with any meds to might take to control it.

If you lie and get the job, any medical insurance that might go along with it can be rescinded without payment of benefits or the requirements that any benefit be paid back. If you lie to get the job, you can be fired without unemployment benefits. If a drug test is required, you will probably fail and lose your job.

However, if you tell the truth, you may not be hired and as a previous employer, I wasn't looking for trouble and would steer clear of someone in your condition/predicament.

What to do? That's your decision. I think what I'd do is go ahead and get your meds going while still in school. As you begin to look for a job, begin to taper off so you won't have to lie. Try to work a couple of months with no drugs at all or perhaps just in the evenings and then begin again. Then again, you may be looking for longer than is tolerable to be off of pain meds.

You're in a difficult situation and you have to decide how to best handle it. I'm sorry you find yourself between the perverbial rock and a hard place. I do wish you well and please keep us posted.

Dale

[Maria]

I think most employers do this routinely although I could be mistaken.
Can you get by w/o pain meds for now? Reason I ask is that I think it would be more difficult to start them then stop them for the period of drug testing altho it may be that you can start them after you begin working.

I didn't start taking pain meds until I stopped working and now that I'm only taking pain medication and once daily I find my mentation is much clearer than when I was taking Neurontin and muscle relaxers as well. However when I first started pain meds there was quite an adjustment for me and I don't think that I could have been working (Nurse Practitioner) seeing patients while adjusting to my pain medication. Now it's 10 years later and I'm used to the medication and not sure what I'd be like w/o it however my mind has quite adjusted to it. Unfortunately trying to withdraw from the particular medication I'm on hasn't been something I could accomplish myself and supposedly has a prolonged withdrawl period (up to 3 or more months if one is trying to withdraw self).

So I'd not recommend the pain med I'm on if planning on starting it and stopping it for drug testing prior to jobs altho there may be others that are far easier to start/stop and there may be something that would work for you and not really be classified as opioid pain medication or pain medication for that matter. So many new pharmaceutical concoctions on the market.

However if you need to start taking something so you can get thru school then you've no choice really. Just do what you have to do and cross the work bridge when you get to it. Wishing you the best with your decision as I know it's not one with an easy answer.

[Pharmacist.steve]

An employer cannot ask any personal questions during the interview process.. after the job is offered/hired.. then the ADA (Americans with Disability Act) and HIPAA comes into play.

I would hate to be an employer that told an employee that they could not take ANY PRESCRIBED MEDICATIONS or OTC drugs... unless it interfered with job/productivity/safety. Proving that can be a very slippery slope for the employer.

Unless the employer limits its hiring to exclude diabetics - low/high blood sugar can affect job performance .. and/or epileptic - don't want employees having seizures in the work place... or people who are depressed.. cause they often can't focus as well or not as productive. How about people with allergies.. who take antihistamines - causes drowiness and can affect job performance.

Drug tests are to determine if a person is taking ILLEGAL drugs or take legal drugs without a physician order.

I would have to do some research...but.. I would think that a lab could not "fail" someone on a drug test... if they could produce a legal prescription for the opiate that was found their urine/blood.... and to report back to the employer that they failed under such circumstances would be -IMO - a false report.... and subject the lab to liable/slander claims...

[Maria]

Sure it's understood that one can take meds that are prescribed as long as they can perform the duties of the position applying for however again if there is competition and the comp has equal attributes re work exp. education and all the rest then it's will the employer steer clear of the person on med and hire equally qualified non prescription using person or ??

Guess much would really depend on how you click during the interview altho that may not clinch the job per se it could definately bode in one's favor.

I wanted to edit to add that it's been a long time since I filled out an application for employment. The best jobs I've landed with the least amount of questions asked or maybe overlooked even where ones where I was a direct referral from someone I knew that worked in the company. Maybe you can get some really good recommendations from your instructors and if you have any friends in the industry their recommendations/referrals are probably helpful as well.

Just have to do what you have to do when all is said and done and hope for the best. Wishing you the best with this!

[dshobbies]

In a perfect world...

As a past employer, we had experiences with employees who had various medical problems/disabilities as well as both past and present addictions. We also hired some with previous criminal records believing most deserved a second chance.

Having gone through what we did, we changed our ways, preferring not to hire those with problems - medical, emotional or personal. This did not include diabetics or others with 'controlled' diseases'. Such did not and more than likely, would not interfere with their job or our business. However, two previous drug addicts relapsed and stole from us. Another, who had too much weekend -itis never showed up to work for a week. We were unable to contact her and replaced her only to have her show up the following week, surprised that her job was gone. Unemployment agreed she was eligible for benefits...

A depressed person took off - just left eveything and us high and dry. Her father claimed she was off her meds. The previous day's bank deposit was missing.

Absenteeism costs employers money as does replacing employees. Training, employment taxes, benefits, etc. add up with each new person. We always tried to stay within the legalities of employment laws BUT also tried to stay clear of potential problems. All things being equal, we'd choose someone who had the least amount of problems.

Larger corporations are less likely to ask incriminating questions but are more likely to order drug testing. If a lie was told during the interview process, such as - do you take any prescription drugs...- and is later discovered, the consequences might be severe. If the truth is told, I would not want to hire someone with so much daily pain that constant meds were required. I would definitely not want to hire someone with severe back problems.

The truth is we do not live in a perfect world. I think Aaron is in a difficult situation - the law notwithstanding. No employer could insist their employees not take prescription or otc drugs but might be less inclined to hire someone dependent on them.

Again, let me state that I'm not talking about high blood pressure, diabetes, thyroid problems... etc. But someone who needed medication to controll chronic back pain would not be on my hire list - legal or not.

BTW, because of constant problems, when we sold our business in favor of another one, one condition was absolutely NO EMPLOYEES. Having said that, as an employee, I disagree with everything I just said.

[Maria]

Dale,
I take it that's you? As owner and employee I guess you can be trusted!

[Hooch]

The truth is you just lie through your goddamned teeth and say whatever you have to say to get the job, as it is a damned sight better than being broke and on the street.

I would never admit in an interview to having a bad back or depression. The truth is we all have skeletons in our closets.

If I was in your position I would consider consulting a lawyer familiar with the field to find out exactly what the legal ramifications and obligations are, so you can bend the rules of the game in your favour as much as possible.

Good luck, I really hope you are able to manage the pain successfully.

[mmglobal]

Aaron, I'm going to ignore your question and bring up something different. I have successfully identified my t-spine generator and in a few weeks will have costovertebral nerve ablations. Keep looking here for my updates... should be some time after Feb 6th.

I don't know if our problems are similar... but maybe my experience will be of some benefit for you?

Mark

[Maria]

Aaron,
there's Hooch's approach which I won't say is wrong however it can have consequences re loss of benefits/job if you're found out. One of my friends had an old back injury and he didn't report it to the company he was working for and then had to take some time off for back probs. They did check into his history and they did terminate his employment. Fortunately he found a new employer in a relatively short period of time and has good benefits. He still has to take time off re back/neck tho at least it's not questioned/problematic to date.

What my first WC attorney told me when I had a back injury and had been out of work for a year re not admitting to the injury was "doubtful the employer can have you put in jail for lying about your back."

Well again we do what we have to do whatever that might be. I hope Mark has success w/his treatment and perhaps it might be something that would be helpful for you and/or others with certain t spine stuff going on. good luck!

[Pharmacist.steve]

If a lie was told during the interview process, such as - do you take any prescription drugs...- and is later discovered, the consequences might be severe.

Asking personal/health questions during the interview process.. is ILLEGAL.. I once had a telephone interview and the "boss" asked me how old I was... I answered the question...but.. later talked to HR .. who was part of the conversation.. and told them they should inform the boss about such laws and they said that they about choked .. when he came out with that question.

Employers are getting around this by putting in the job description... able to lift 20 lbs... stand on your feet for 8 hrs...etc...etc... if you claim that you can meet these job description.. and you can't... then they have reason to dismiss you because you have mis-represented yourself.

[dshobbies]

As I stated - in a perfect world...

Small employers care less about the legalities of what can and cannot be asked. A friend of ours was reported to the employment board and his response was his question was misunderstood... No action was taken.

Small employers can ill afford the hiring of employees that will ultimately cost them money.

I still think this is a difficult situation. As quoted "it's a dog eat dog world out there and I'm wearing milkbone underwear". We all are!

[Pharmacist.steve]

The "labor boards" are known for being "paper tigers"... they exist for the pure purpose to meet some regulation that they do exists.

With a medical issues... it should fall under the ADA and it was written with vague verbiage so that the courts could define what the act should entail.

The fines for violating the ADA can be quite draconian and all it takes is one over-eager attorney to go after making an example out of a employer to get the attention of the entire employer population... and typically they pick on the weakest of the lot... they are the easiest to slaughter.

This is one of the disadvantages of having an interview one on one or with everyone "on the other side of the table"... for it is easy for it to be said that there as a mis-understanding... or what you heard and not what I said... some similar cop-out to cover up a lie.

[Hooch]

That's why I would consult a lawyer (assuming I was financially sound and getting ready to deal with a long term condition) and check where I stand with the law, and I understand it varies state to state in the US?

The reality is if you admit to medical conditions which have the potential to compromise your performance your application goes to the bottom of the pile, no matter what the size of the company you are applying for.

If it comes down to having a job and having no job... which would you prefer? If you can get a foot in being honest, then that's great. If that doesn't work, time for dirty tricks!