Alastair's post

[Alastair]

From a patient had ADR with Dr Bertagnoli

Will try to make this brief...I'm still in shock myself. Turns out at my doc's appt. this afternoon doctor discovered an infection in my incision! He wanted to admit me tonight, but he graciously let me go to hotel to be w/ my husband for the night, and of course, diet restricted to tea, water, etc. And then I admit to hospital first thing in am, at 8. Please keep me in your thoughts and prayers, as I was seemingly coming along so nice. My understanding from Dr. Milewski is they will reopen existing incision, which is 6 inches long and do whatever magic they do to get rid of infection. I will hopefully only have to be in hospital thru the weekend. We are not scheduled to leave Germany until May 5th, thank God, so no flight changes had to take place. That's my 12 day update. Bummer. Big time.

[mmglobal]

Alastair,

I'm not sure what to think of this post. Cindy is a member here and will post her story if she sees fit. I hope she does.

Unless Cindy specifically asked you to post her words here, I'm not sure I understand your role or your purpose. "Infection at Straubing" sounds like a bad movie title. (BTW, Cindy is in Bogen. Hotel is in Straubing.) I have been speaking to Cindy and her husband. There is much you don't know. It seems completely inappropriate for you to make such a post. The correct information shoud be, and I hope will be posted by the people involved, with a tone and in the manner that they feel is appropriate. If they choose to make posts with inflammatory titles, they will.

Please don't use someone else's words to make inflammatory posts unless:

1. You have been asked to by the author.

2. You know the facts.

3. You are posting useful information for the benefit of the patient community. That is, after all, what these patient communities are about.

If you are going to be the town crier and will be posting other people's words, please explain what criteria you'll be using for newsworthy items. Why only this?

I'm changing the title of your post so the content will remain for now. (I do not object to the content.) I hope that Cindy will come and post her story. If she does that, I'll delete this post unless it generates some interesting discussion about the ethics of posting other people's words, inflammatory and uninformed posts, etc...

All the best,

Mark

[rscottp]

For the benefit of the many readers and bloggers who participate in this fine site, I am compelled to join iSpine today for the sole purpose of correcting the terribly misleading inferences posted by Alistair.
Let me state my credentials in the matter. My wife is the person who was quoted by Alistair.
Now, let me set the record straight: We went back for a post-op appointment yesterday (Thursday) and were disappointed to find out that there was an issue with the incision. It appeared to be an infection, but without a surgical procedure to re-open, evaluate, clean and close, it was too early to tell. Naturally, my wife and I were disappointed. That disappointment was clearly felt in my wife's posting.
Today (Friday) we went back to the hospital in Bogen and Dr. B went in himself and evaluated the situation. It is highly likely that there is NO infection. In fact, the surgery and supporting labs are likely going to indicate that there were other factors impacting her incision.
The type of posting made by Alistair clearly indicates an alternative agenda on his part. This is concerning and this is why I went through the motions to join the iSpine community.
Alistair, I am disappointed in your judgement to broadcast an alarmist view that was not initiated on this web site... and to choose to call out in colored font the word "infection" clearly indicates that you have some sort of agenda that does not include fairness or balance.
To all the fine members of Mark Mintzer's site, I offer an apology for the sorry and inaccurate, out-of-context, and misguided posting of this gentleman "Alistar".
I am equally pleased to inform you that despite this minor setback, Cindy and I are terrifically impressed with not only ProSpine and Dr. Bertagnoli, but the exceptional service and quality afforded the patients of the Kreiskrankenhaus in Bogen.
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to clear the air on this matter.
Rick

[Alastair]

Hi Rick,
This lady as far as I know only posted on the ADR support.org website. I did not mention her name as such, but I think it should be of interest to ALL patients who are going to this particular medical establishment.

If patients are aware of infections in hospitals then they can take greater precautions and also ensure that the staff do also.

We do this in the UK, what I posted as far as I know is fact, and if patients take extra precautions, then this is a positive and productive posting.

I do apologise if this has "Offended" anyone, but this should help others, and your wife, to ensure that you and the hospital staff ensure that "Better Hygene" is carried out to protect you and your wife. We actually ask staff , and watch them, wash their hands prior to touching us in hospitals in the UK. Infections are serious things.
Best,
Alastair

[mmglobal]

Alastair,

Please read Rick's post. (That is usually a good thing to do before responding.)

Do not post for others unless they specifically ask you to. Otherwise the meaning of their words may be changed as we have seen in this case. Your post misrepresents their story in a way that is misleading and inappropriate, as outlined by Rick, the patient's husband.

Your "hand washing" comment makes it seem that either:

• You completely miss the whole point of my private message, my post and Rick's post... or:
  
• You are intentionally being provocative.

Either way, posting in a manner that is not helpful to the community is not allowed here. I'd love for you to stay here and contribute, but only if you post in a positive and informative manner.

All the best,

Mark

[Alastair]

Mark,
I thought I had expressed that this post was for ALL patients not just about one and how to protect yourselves. There are gels, that patients use in the UK that do protect us from infections, as well as ensuring staff wash their hands. It should be of interest that ALL members here to know where and in which establishments infections lie.

I always thought this WAS a board for ALL patients and not just one or two.

If you feel my post is wrong -- then please remove it
Talk soon
Alastair

[mmglobal]

Alastair,

Please read the entire thread. Please stop at the end of each relevant item and try to digest what is being said.

Nobody objects to the content of the post.

The problem lies in that you have taken another person's story and have morphed it into a sensationalized warning about a situation that you have no knowledge of. You seem to be hanging on to the idea that you are providing a service by informing the community about a situation that they should be wary of. However, you are ignoring the fact that the patient and her husband believe that you are misrepresenting the situation and that your using their words in this manner is misleading and and alarmist (at best).

Let's let the story play out and find out what is really happening. Let's let the patient and her husband tell the story themselves and they will determine the tone.

Being an alarmist about a situation before you know the facts is not helpful to you, them or the community. It damages your credibility and dilutes the value of these communities.

If you understand this, please stay and be a productive member of iSpine.

All the best,

Mark

[ans]

I don't mean to step on toes but when I read:

" this afternoon doctor discovered an infection in my incision! He wanted to admit me tonight, but he graciously let me go to hotel"..

I was concerned and hoped the poster would get treatment for the purported infection taken care of ASAP. Should I feel guilty for caring?

Allan

[mmglobal]

I don't know about the decision in this case... speculating is pointless. In other cases I've seen (both here and abroad) when the doctor and patient determine what the best course of action is, and that it really doesn't matter in that equation if the patient sleeps in the hospital or somewhere more comfortable... then they have the freedom to choose the most appropriate course of action and give consideration to comfort as well.

[Poncho]

I don't know all the details as to why the incisional site was opened. Even after reading the above posts. The cultures of the wound would need to come back positive first before it could truely be called a post operative infection. Wound cultures take time to grow in a lab so I would not expect to see results for like 2-3 days after obtaining them.

As with most/all invasive procedures out there, the patient runs a risk of infection - No matter where you go or who performs the procedure..Granted some places have higher infection rates than others.

In my humble opinion, it is important to be objective and look at measurable criteria before making any conclusions. At this juncture, with this case scenario - there is nothing to measure yet because the data is still pending. Thus, it can not be called an "infection" *yet*.

[Cindylou]

Hello, I am Cindy, the person who is being misquoted, out of context by Alastair. Let me just start by saying a few things: I don't appreciate being "quoted" without permission first. A telephone call to me, to understand fully the context wherein the statement was made would have been most appreciated. Then, you would have learned which hospital I was staying in........Bogen, not Straubing Hospital. And Poncho is most correct in his post. Initially, yes, the doctor, after examining the wound site, saw what appeared to be a "pus" of some sort, and described it as infection, rather loosely. After surgery last night to go in and clean out wound, biopsy was sent to lab for accurate diagnosis. Dr. Bertagnoli came into my room after the surgery he performed last night, and expressed his opinion that this was very much a topical infection (my word not his, as I cannot remember), and not something deep w/i the wound, which is very good news. Results of the biopsy, as Poncho accurately stated, will take a day or two. That's it. End of story until results come in. Cindylou