Help - new back patient - and lost

fireyangel76 · #1 (**permalink**) 11-11-2008, 03:54 AM

I had 4 ESI's in the L5-S1 without any sedation. It did hurt for a minute or so, but compared to the pain I was already in it was like a bee sting. They never worked for me but I think I was too far gone.

I know quite a few people helped by epidural injections and never need anything more. In fact most of them don't understand why they did not work for me.

Good luck I hope you get relief!

Jim M2 · #2 (**permalink**) 11-11-2008, 05:52 AM

Chef Guy,
The only painful part for me was when they injected local anesthesia. This gave me a few fleeting bee stings like Firey mentions. Once numbed up it's just an uncomfortable and somewhat creepy feeling when the actual ESI is given. It's far from being a big deal. Especially, as Firey mentions, when compared to our normal pain levels. Good luck, I hope it helps.

Maria · #3 (**permalink**) 11-11-2008, 06:59 AM

I've been getting lumbar ESIs for the last 7 years and they are extremely helpful to me w/pain relief. I will state that the first one is the worst one I ever had and not because it hurt at the time of the procedure as I believe I had some level of anesthesia but rather because it seems that with the first one there's more discomfort at least for myself it lasted a full 3 days feeling like a the beginning of a flare up with increased pain in the area that normally hurt (or like my back was going out all over again).

That was the only time it ever really hurt for more than a day after the procedure itself altho usually one is advised that there can be increased pain for up to 7-10 days but that's not been my experience and over the last few years I just relatively low to no pain afterwards or only some discomfort but I still rest that day with ice packs to the area intermittantly.

I do hope you will get good relief and that this will be a limited experience with pain/back probs and you can be back doing what you love~

Eastex · #4 (**permalink**) 11-11-2008, 05:01 PM

Guy,
I have only had two done and I didn't feel any relief. My first one didn't bother me, but it was weird. I had never been in a hospital for anything, so I was a little nervous. I was surprised how I was in and out of the procedure room. The wait before and after was the part I didn't like. They had me in a wheel chair on my way to the entrance to meet the best wife in the world with the car. (She has put up with me and this pain for a long time, and I need to be extra nice!) While they were wheeling me along, It felt like my legs were moving back and forth like I was walking. It was a strange feeling. On my second one, I felt more pressure and it was a bit more discomforting. My back hurt more for a few days and then it was back to the normal pain. My mother had an injection a few weeks ago and it helped her a lot. She has to have surgery, but it did relieve the pain. I am not to far ahead of you in the battle of back pains. Good luck to you and secret recipes are always welcome!

mmglobal · #5 (**permalink**) 11-11-2008, 06:05 PM

Guy, in the early days of my ordeal, I had 8 epidural injections. Most helped, a few had no impact and one set me off (made me much worse) for about a week.

It sounds like you are relatively new to spine problems and are in the stage where you are trying to avoid surgery. Epidurals stand a good chance of cooling down the inflammation and allowing you to heal quicker. The don't work for everyone, but IMHO, the risks are relatively low. That is why such a high percentage of lumbar patients get epidurals, even though a relatively small percentage of us get long term relief.

The ESI's were helpful to me when I was still the the avoiding surgery phase. They saved several vacations, as my pain management doc would fit me in if I was having problems just before a trip was planned.

Good luck,

Mark

Jakea222 · #6 (**permalink**) 11-13-2008, 02:22 AM

thanks for the great responses. in quite a bit of pain now and really walking parking lots etc with a cane. the kitchen work is very hard and i take pain killers before each shift and sometimes in the middle especially tonight where I had quite a few reservations. I am doing PT on my off days and doing the same stuff at home with lots of ice packs.

I really appreciate all of you and value your life experiences a lot...guy

mmglobal · #7 (**permalink**) 11-13-2008, 03:18 PM

If the 'first two' were zero relief... will there be more? I've always wondered what motivates the doctor to do a third ESI.

Are you getting ANY improvement? Are you still working?

Mark

Gil Denis · #8 (**permalink**) 11-26-2008, 03:55 AM

Hi chef

I am new to this site! Had several injections and they worked for a while. the last ones i had were hard and no help. Do what ever it takes to relive pain.
pain is my friend I just wish he was nicer. Have a happy turkey day and do not work to hard take several breaks.

Good day Gil

johnb · #9 (**permalink**) 11-26-2008, 07:26 AM

Early on I too did injections and got good relief. Some clinicians tell you they want to do 3 injections. The clinician I had would do 1 and see how I felt, then it was my decision if I wanted to schedule another one with a limit of 3 per year. Since good relief was obtained with the first one but didn't find the procedure too unpleasant (also the Dr. administering them was quite attractive

, I decided to do an 2nd one and got a bit more relief out it but decided not to do a 3rd one. Compared to surgery, the risks are minimal but not zero. You will sign a consent form which lists the potential complications. If you are curious about risks, you can google "epidural steriod injection risks" and get more info.

Some clinics want you to do 3 injections no matter what. IMHO, this to maximize revenue as this service is a fat money maker for the clinics. Remember that you are the patient and you are the one assuming the risks. We patients should not have to assume extra risks if we have already recieved a desired benefit just so they can fatten their pockets.

John

Maria · #10 (**permalink**) 11-26-2008, 04:28 PM

what John states re revenue. What I like about my PM is he never pushes for anything and in fact I see him every 3 months or so for scripts and whenever I think I need an ESI I have to speak with my Primary Treating doctor first (OSS) and he orders the ESI and then the PM orders it and then it goes to WC for denial or authorization (what a freaking process at this point).

My PM is nice looking too ~ I call him SurfDoc as he just that kind of SoCal kind of near mid 40's guy who has a harley, used to surf, and is just laid back and pretty dead on with his aim re the ESI's.

For me the benefits have outweighed the risks and relief from pain has been quite welcome.

racergaldar · #11 (**permalink**) 11-29-2008, 01:39 AM

I've had 11 epidural injections and with conscience sedation it was a piece of cake. You're awake, but you don't remember. When I had an EMG, it was excrutiating, so if I can easily tolerate the injections.......

Before you go, make sure they provide sedation. I've heard others didn't have it; so if the dr. doesn't provide it, go to someone else.

johnb · #12 (**permalink**) 11-29-2008, 03:08 AM

That's funny that you mention the sedation. The lady who did the majority of mine didn't use sedation and I didn't know it was an option. 6 weeks into my dynesys surgery was when the bilateral nerve pain/burning and weakness started and I elected to see if an injection might calm things down. Due to the hardware, my PM said it would have to be done caudally so I'm glad sedation was an option. I'm glad I wasn't awake for that.

When I was young (4 to 5), I had a blood disorder, lymphoblastic leukemia, which required a lot of needle sticking so I guess I just became used to needles on a weekly basis. Various professionals over the years always remarked on how calm I've been with various procedures. In fact, the fellow that gave me the discogram remarked that I had the highest pain tolerance that he'd ever seen. I'm not sure about that but my mom did refuse pain medication at the hospital when she fractured her ankle (the nurses thought she was crazy) so it could be a family thing. The discogram occured after my IDET so perhaps it did seal some things up. I need to get my full medical record to look at it for myself. Point being is that my L5/S1 was not concordant for pain and it looks sick on the MRI for sure. L4/L5 was somewhat concordant but not awful so who knows really, I can only speculate. Can a disc be sick looking and not be painful? It most certainly can.

The blood disorder went into remission on its on and my pediatrician just said it was a one of those things that some would call a miracle.

John

Jakea222 · #13 (**permalink**) 12-01-2008, 11:45 PM

I have another question - While I wait another 12 days for my injections I have been pretty hard core in doing Physical Therapy. I go to a place and then I do it at home on my own -- I have 2 PTs and the younger chick (sorry just a term ladies) she is real good about -especially after a hard day on the line to ease me out of the severe pain I am in - the other is in my opinion too gentle -

So here is my question - is PT a good thng - what I mean by that if you are trying to strengthen the muscles but they tell you not to do things that hurt - well I hurt all of the time....see my problem. As a former "guy that worked out and had a washboard stomach and some cut BEFORE I GOT MARRIED AND BECAME A CHEF" ha that was a little humor. I used to work out to burn and have thet muscle soreness....so how do you build it without burning it OR not creating pain while doing it ----- boy I just read it and it spins around but has a question....tell me your opinions....Chef G

johnb · #14 (**permalink**) 12-02-2008, 01:52 AM

I'm a believer in PT. However, it took me awhile to find a good one. Additionally, I think some just have a special talent for it like a certain intuition or something. My PT used a technique called strain counterstrain. He always wanted to view an MRI abstract if available. PT's cannot diagnose but he knew more about what was cuasing my pain than any MD I saw at that time. I was 24, diagnosed with disc disease at L4 to S1 with some bulging, some annular tears but still with good disc height at both levels. I had no nerve related symtoms at the time. My pelvis would get out of alignment which caused pain. He'd press on different muscles and I'd give feedback on which ones were painful when palpitated. Then he'd put my body in a position where there was no tension on that muscle and put pressure on that muscle for 1.5 minutes. This did something to release that muscle that was pulling my pelvis. The muscles that were in this state were described by him to be in a state of dysfuntion and needed to be reset. Once these muscles were reset, he'd instruct me on stabalization exercises that go from level 1, 2, and so on. Before meeting him, I was very scared due to persistant pain at such a young age with surgeons telling me not to have surgery. He helped me out tremendously. Out of the 6 PT's or so that I've worked with, he was the only one that helped me. God bless Tim McMahon.

So it really depends on your particular issues I suppose. It makes sense to have a strong core to support your spine. If your muslces aren't doing their jobs, your spine is going to be under more strain.

John