Does discography damage the discs?

[annapurna]

I know that chondrocyte transplatation for disc nucleus restoration is not FDA-approved per se. On the other hand, chondrocyte transplantation for repair of chondral defects in the knee and other joints has been FDA approved since the early 1990's, so, it's possible that use of the same technique for spinal disc could be considered "off-label".

As far as great expense goes, I was whining. Codon, the German cell culturing company that ProSpine uses, charges about 7000 euros to do the culturing. That's actually a good price for cell culturing compared to the going rate for bone marrow or adipose mesenchymal cell expansion and similar. It's a FABULOUS price compared to the $70,000 that Carticel charges to do the same thing here in the states for autologous chondrocyte transplantation. Of course, Carticel has the US monopoly, so...

Like most folks, I'm trying to balance investing in my body vs. my bank account in the face of potential job losses in my family, etc. We're all there, I guess.

Best to all,
Laura

[Maria]

Laura,
this does sound very interesting and I'm wondering what the inclusion or exclusion criteria would be re the involved level/disc and if you know where to find that information.

It may be nothing that my long time disrupted disc levels are candidates for however perhaps adjacent levels that seem to be *ok*.. or at least so I'd like to think..

[Crystal33]

Regarding discography, when i read Carragee's paper I couldn't help but think of the many symptom free 'healthy' persons who have voluntarily undertaken the procedure in the past to help advance medical research and understanding. That a percentage of these persons will develop accelerated disc degeneration possibly leading to incapacity and/or spine surgery due to the procedure is tragic. Possibly they would have grounds for legal action, if they could afford it..

Carragee won an Award from eminent persons for the paper so I don’t think it can be discounted. Also he has no conflict of interest whereas Dr Derby benefits financially from discography. As there could possibly now be an increased risk of persons taking legal action if they have reasonable grounds to believe their spinal condition is result of a procedure which was described as safe or where risks were not disclosed providers of the service will naturally become defensive. Interesting how other posters here have mentioned actual personal adverse experiences.

One might wonder why Carragee would investigate the modern practice using fine needles, which is often described as safe. My guess is that with his vast research experience he suspected what the outcome would be from the outset. Us sufferers are indebted to people like him.

I wonder why Dr Derby, as a major provider, did not see or suspect any adverse consequences as identified by Carragee. Use of finer bullet tip needles sounds like a good idea and one could also wonder why this has not been the practice for some time. As larger needles have been previously established as a risk then surely use of the finest possible bullet tip needles would be a logical choice as providing the safest possible procedure for patients.

One would need to read Carragee’s full paper to see to what extent age, genetics, and any existing degeneration influenced the association between discography and accelerated disc damage/degeneration, assuming he addressed these factors.

I ’m surprised they don’t also closely consider post procedure activity (I assume they don’t). If two gymnasts underwent the procedure and one kept training each day but the other rested for a few weeks and avoided bending, twisting, lifting, I suspect the former would be at much greater risk of causing tiny tears at periphery of needle hole.

Personally I would avoid discography, unless absolutely no choice. Carragee has identified new unacceptable risks that add to existing risks regarding a procedure of questionable value.

The Discography Controversy: Discussion - Discussion Continued

FR Discography