Other German hospitals ?

[B13s]

Well, did another MRI today - have new herniation again in the same place (middle of L5/S1 pressing on the spinal cord only, not the roots) - doctor suggests to go with ADR since disk looks like triangle (if you look from the side) - one side is ok, another one - something like 1-2mm left. I have no normal pain - neither in legs nor back, only burning in both legs and a bit in a back. Not sure now - do I try to wait, or go with ADR - according to doctor the earlier you replace it - the better chances of recovery. However since I'm only 35 - don't think that any ADR will last my lifetime...

[mmglobal]

Sorry about the recurrant herniation... 1-2mm herniation is pretty small. I went through the same thing after my first discectomy... radiologist said recurrant herniation... my doc said normal post-op MRI. The surgeon turned out to be correct... radiologist wrong.

Why don't you think ADR will last? What are the options and how long are they guaranteed to last? (I'm not suggesting ADR... spine surgery should be avoided if possible.) What does the rest of your spine look like?

All the best,

Mark

[B13s]

What I mean is that there is only 1-2mm of disk height left on one side, herniation itself is ~6-7mm in length & width (like bubble). It's something like here http://www.spineuniverse.com/display...supre2a-BB.jpg , only herniation is bigger and left side is higher (so angle is even bigger).
Mine L4/L5 is also dark (similar to L3/L4 in the picture) - I compared it to the MRI that was done two years ago and looks like it didn't became any darker. The rest is fine (at least for now). During my first post-op herniation in the summer the same doctors who did first op advised against second op saying that it won't help much, however herniation wasn't so big at that time. At the same time they mentioned ADR, but also said that it's up to me since there are not enough long term studies. I'm going to see them again next week with new MRI. Also have another appointment with different hospital in January, but don't think that they have enough experience and they do Prodisc only. Probably will go to Alphaklinik as well. In any case I can go for op only in October and have only max 18 weeks to be out of the job. I'm in IT - no physical work required - hope 18 weeks don't sound too optimistic.
My personal opinion is that fusion at L5/S1 only would destroy L4/L5 in no time. ADR at L5/S1 probably wouldn't last long as well. I guess I'd need to go either with fusion at L5/S1 + ADR L4/L5 or two ADR's at L4-S1. And of course there is also option of waiting and living with Neurotin since I don't have so much of the back pain - my mine problem is burning in the legs with some occasional spasms.

[Maria]

I had much burning bilat in legs altho with back pain when my back would go out (or I would think the disc was leaking goop on nerves because of onset of pain, type of pain, duration of painful episode and bedrest required to relieve pain).

Currently my back is bothering me very much and I'm having bilat burning again in thighs/quads. It rather sucks.

I have been taking Neurontin since '98 for the residual burning pain left from my failed discectomy in '92. Maybe you could give it a try and see how that goes if all else seems to be status quo and you're not much affected by your spinal situation.

My disc bulges were small as well before both of my discectomies however the pain they caused was BIGGGGGG and BAD!!!! I think I have a bigger disc bulge now in one of the same discs that was surgerized way back in '92.

[B13s]

I was on Lyrica for couple of months after my op, after that switched to Neurontin since Lyrica made me extremely sleepy all the time. Together with Neurontin I was also taking Cymbalta + Novalgin + Katadolon (not sure if it's known outside Germany) - and all this cocktail still couldn't kill burning... Doctor was pushing for opioids but I was against it and in the end burning disappeared within two weeks 9 months later - and it took so long without any herniation.
With new herniation I'm not sure how long it will take and if it will go away at all. I prefer to have 'normal' pain - and even happy when I get it because it makes all the burning to stop at least for a few hours. Burning really drives me crazy - well, you have the same thing - so you know what I'm talking about...
On the other note - today arranged appointment yet with another doctor for consultation, so far have 3 lined-up. Also on my way back from work stopped at the Alphaklinik, but was already too late - got only some advertisement material

[dshobbies]

Upon awakening from my 3 level Prodisc, both my legs were completely numb. I immediately started on Neurontin and a course of steroids. Within days, my right leg began to come back but... both legs became extremely hypersensative. The touch of the blanket or even a breeze on my legs was excrutiating. This pain lasted for about 6 months, during which time I was on Dilaudid, a narcotic. I couldn't drive but this pain was so severe, I welcomed however relief came.

Take what you need for your comfort and when you capable, decide how to best deal with your pain. I hate pills but am grateful they're there for me if I need them.

[B13s]

Went today to the same hospital that did initial operation, spent 2 hours - met surgeon as well, got x-rays - no instability, however facet joins aren't too perfect and they advised against ADR, advised against fusion as well since they think that new herniation is too far from nerve roots and new operation won't improve neuropatic pain. They think that it could be caused by scar tissue - I have it a lot on the left side, but it cannot explain pain on the right side. Have appointment with Dr. Zeegers next Thursday, but probably will cancel it and see Dr. Baumbach instead.
Also went to another hospital - again - do not recommend ADR, say scar tissue cannot be a problem 1.5 year later after operation, can remove new herniation, but no guarantee that it would improve anything.
Overall it looks like I'm back to pain management without anybody knowing what's really going on...

[B13s]

Went to see dr.Zeegers to Alphaklinik today - spent five hours - and the result - well - dr. Zeeger probably is good surgeon, but not so sure about diagnostics. Or maybe my case is really a puzzle. Got my flexibility measured - almost excellent, back muscle strength - quite bad - and this is despite all the exercises I was doing... After looking into my MRI and X-ray unfortunately he didn't say anything new - I can wait, can have only herniation removed, can get STALIF or STALIF at L5/S1 + ADR at L4/L5 - and it's up to me to decide. During our conversation I mentioned dr.Baumbach and dr.Zeegers was a bit surprised that I know that name, however he agreed that it would be good idea to see dr.Baumbach as well - and 10 minutes latter I was already in dr.Baumbach's office.
Now regarding dr.Baumbach I can say that his examination is really pretty good. However result was that it's not clear at all what's causing my burning pain. Herniation I have shouldn't be causing my current symptoms. Fortunately he had few more ideas - I need to get MRI of my neck - there is possibility that something is pressing on my spinal cord in that area and it could fit to my symptoms since he also found that I have some muscle strength deficit in my fingers, I also need to check if I don't have Lyme disease and also need to check if I don't have spinal cord infection by doing lumbar puncture.
After dr.Baumbach I went to see dr.Zeegers again - he called dr.Baumbach, they argued a bit about my diagnosis - didn't really agree on it and well - wished me a good luck
Cost (from my own pocket): for dr.Baumbach - 200 Euro (worth every cent), for dr.Zeegers - 300 Euro (feels a bit of waste and as payment for really nice office ).

Another interesting thing - I was looking at all ADR's at dr.Zeegers office - according to him they are made from exactly the same material as original ADR's including cores - but for me plastic of the cores (both Charite and Active L) looked really soft - I pressed on it with a nail and my nail left a mark on the core - keeps me wondering how this plastic supposed to last years ? I also asked about Charite and he said that they are not good - bit surprising comment from the surgeon who implanted lots of them...

[fuzzy]

Thank you, B13s, for keeping us updated on your quest for an answer to your spinal problems which is specially interesting as you are in Munich and can walk in of the street for these consults.

I have also visited Dr. Baumbach (6 hours, 800 euro's, in my case) and he was definitely trying to make sure not to rule out any posiblillity even those seeminly rare cases of cervical myleopathy in which the neck does not hurt but something is pushing on the spinal chord and causing exactly what you describe which btw is very similar to the problems that I have had, in my case burning feet that are very uncomfortable to stand on. Baumbach, based on his tests, found reason to believe that *possibly* my neck was involved. So neck MRI which showed nothing clear as daylight but a hint on possible problems. But I had severe lumbar problems and the leg and foot problems often coincided with the events in my back, i.e. sitting certain ways made it a lot worse. So all surgeons said if any surgery then lumbar should be worked on first as I surely need that. Zeegers got the job and found issues in my spine that were not clearly visible on the MRI (reminds me of slot machines, you never know what you'll get). But even though I still have problems 8 weeks out it is obvious that my foot problems were caused by my lumbar spine, knew it the next day when I tested my feet, I now could walk with little of the original problems, only to be replaced with a lot of irritation which I believe to be nerve damage that will take a long time to heal. I wonder if I waited too long. But no one had a clear answer for my problems and Baumbach/Zeegers got a lot closer then anyone else.