It's official Stenum Money gone

[cherylstewart67]

Mark, from what I have read, there are several others using the M6, right? I had made contact with a surgeon in California that was going to be doing some trails at Stenum. I had the paper work, lots of it, to send in for consideration. But after becoming a member here and reading all about the nightmares there, I trashed the documents. I must hold on to hope that something is in store for us here.

[cp7959]

My "discomfort" is some degree of nerve irritation at the C5/C6 distribution. It flares when I move my arms around to much. This started after my Stenum surgery.

I'm actually now fused at C6/C7, C5/C6, C4/C5 and ADR at C3/C4. I guess I should be grateful that my symptoms are manageable. My surgeon believes in time my nerves will calm down more. We all want our normal selves back.

Funny part is I was in much better shape before going to Stenum. Because my fusion at C6/C7 in 2002 was no problem and recovery was a breeze, I thought the same would be on the Stenum ADR surgery. So I went to Germany with very minor discomfort. And came back in very rough shape. So I "screwed up".

Getting the C3/C4 ADR in the States, again no problems, recovery was very quick. Also the revision to fusion was a breeze at C5/C6.

So my frustration is that if I was just patient and stayed home I would be so much better off physically and financially. But the world of "ADR" sounds so sexy, I jumped on the band wagon.

As for the Stenum nightmare stories. Stenum really is a nice hospital and the staff is outstanding. The problem is the surgeon. Very quick procedures and in some cases that may be OK. However, in more complex, multi level, or stenosis the risk factor increases regardless of surgeon. But the "Stenum, pedal to the medal" surgery opens up for a greater risk for problems.

As Huey Lewis and the News would say "All I want from tomorrow, is to make it better than today".

[mmglobal]

I think Heuy Lewis says, "I want a new drug!"

The 'drive thru surgery' mentioned is horrific. The worst case I know if is a 3-level cervical case with severe degeneration, large osteophytes; the whole 9 yards. Operative time for a 3-level was 70 minutes. This is a joke. The important part of the surgery (posterior decompression) was not addressed at all. The patient wound up paying for a 2nd surgery to have the m6's removed and replaced with ProDisc-C's with good result. However, that came after additional YEARS of spinal cord compression, suffering, more permananent damage bacause of the wait, etc...

I wish we could say that they have learned about their problems, but what I see is a steady stream of these outrageous, hurried, and careless surgeries that are incomplete at best.

I will always backpeddle and say that I know many stenum successes, just like I know horror stories from all the surgeons I know and love. However, there is a difference between the horror stories that will sometimes occur even in the best of circumstances; and the horror stories that are directly attributed to the cavalier attitude that lets them complete what should be a 4 hours in 70 minutes.

There is nothing wrong with the M6. It is not my disc of choice for several reasons... especially in multi-level configurations. Having said that, IMHO, all the discs are likely to be successes if properly implanted in a properly selected patient. For some reason, some doctors experience high incidence of HO (auto fusion, heterotopic ossification), while others experience almost none.

I have to go... sorry I've not been here much. My responsibilites overwhelm my capacity to work... still quite limited. I do worse at home than on the road. I'll be traveling again next week... hopefully I can catch up with the forum then.

Mark

[Jarrod]

Hey guys,

I thought I read somewhere that if the decompression to the foramen was not done completely that u could get foramentomy done from the posterior side of the neck. And is the myleo ct the only way to see if the formen is decompressed enough for th nerves. I had dr. Clavel tell me he throughly cleaned out my foramen opening because this is where my arm pain was comming from but I still have symptoms weak extensor muscles in the hand and some forarm irritation with flexion of the neck. I'm only 3 months post op so I hope I still have room to improve

[jsewell]

Hi Jarrod
i know the foraminotomy can be done from the back of the neck. I just picked upl my OR report and my doc did everything he could to open up my cervical and thoracic spine. The part he did do the foraminotomy on was already fused from 3 years ago, but I needed extensive work and he was there so it was all taken care of. It was done on C4-7.
HOpefully in a few more months your pain will subside.
My nerve pain from this past surgery is pretty much gone at a little over 2 months, but we are all different. It was generated from my neck falling off the spinal column, so much different.
judy

[cp7959]

Jarrod,

You are correct a Foraminotomy can be done form the back. That was not an option for me at C5/C6 because I had one done in 2003. So when my Stenum surgery did not decompress my foramen to relieve the pain, my only option was to remove the ADR and fuse.

The good part about a Foraminotomy is it can be done minimally invasive. The bad part is there is the potential for scar tissue. But I believe that relatively small risk.

YOur still new out of surgery if the Dr. decompressed your foramen, give it time. Nerves can take a long time. Hopefully not to long for you.

Huey says, "Step by Step, run by run."

[mmglobal]

The decompression that can be done by foramenotomy is not the same as the decompression that is done during a PROPER fusion or disc replacement surgery. Only a small amount of the foramen is accessible during the anterior spine surgery. The foramen is decompressed by virtue of restoring disc height, thereby enlarging the foramen. The decompression that MUST be done during a proper ADR surgery is removal of the big bone spurs or osteophytes that grow on the back of the vertebral bodies when the DDD gets severe. Also to be removed are the calcified remnants of old disc protrusions, ruptured ligaments, etc....

NOTE that the osteophytes and other crap that is causing the problems cannot be reached with a typical foramenotomy. If they were to try to reach them, they would likely be destabilizing the system in a manner that would not by consistent with a properly functioning ADR.

Note that I am not a doctor and am just sharing my layperson's opinion. Don't believe what you read on the Internet.

Mark

[Rob Wilson]

I am one of the disasters at Stenum. It breaks my heart that this is still going on. For me, the good thing is that they installed the discs properly. The bad things were that they cut my iliac vein and that they did not decompress any of the nerves by opening the foramen. However, I really don't see how they could have done this from the anterior. I ended up having posterior decompressions that freed the nerves successfully.

[Spine Advocate]

Bertognalli and Ritter-Lang are slick marketers and salesmen. I suspect that they are receiving kickbacks same as American doctors.

The M6 is junk but it is better junk than what's available in the US. The problem with the M6 is it is a tough install and it can migrate.

Stenum may be better than anything in the US but they are still crooks.

Stenum Nightmare - Stenum Nightmare

Ritter-Lang lied to the owner of Stenum Nightmare.

Lo and behold, about two years later, I started experiencing some pain and had gotten a new x-ray. What I discovered when I looked at that x-ray was shocking, to say the least. I couldn’t believe my eyes as I studied it closer. Something was very wrong. The device didn’t look like the M6 at all (I still had the picture of the device on my bulleting board!). I immediately called Sue Hart to inquire – “Yes, Brian, you have an M6.” I tried contacting Malte Petersen (the Administrator) and when he finally responded by email, he wrote that I had a Prestige and that that was what they planned all along. This guy had lied to me from the get go! He lied right to my face like it was a game. My spine became a portion of his greed, like I was a farm animal or a lab rat, totally expendable. The hospital never gave me correct paperwork for what was implanted. There was no serial number, no manufacturer, and no specific model name for what was in my neck. And to this day, I still don’t have any of this information.

Here is all my documentation and here is the email from Malte Petersen. Notice here the serial number I told you about... well as it turns out it's the same serial number as the M6 that my hospital roommate had on his paperwork. They gave me the serial number with the barcode off my roommate's implant. He and I were the only two to have the cervical disc replacements of all the U.S. patients that day. Are they so incompetent that they are unable to give their patient the correct paperwork? I don’t think so.

So, bottom line - They LIED to me. They USED me. And They LIED to me some more. Why? I'm not sure and probably never will be. I can only speculate... I believe Malte Petersen lied to help the hospital get easier pre-approval from B.C.B.S. and possibly other insurance companies. They don’t earn money from their native countrymen as they are on nationalized medicine. They market like crazy in the U.S. because it brings them MONEY, and lots of it.

[Aaron]

I hear some good some bad about the M6 disc, but as I started having low back issues I came across Dr. Nick Boree and while I know almost all docs good and bad have horror stories. I am yet to find any about this guy, I think he was using M6. I looked and looked and I am more impressed by what people say about this guy. It is a huge loss, as person and surgeon that he was tragically killed.
Im sure there are things out there, failures, and Mark probably knows and have seen some from this doctor, but reading his patients across forums and other boards I wonder why some have such seemingly good results, while places such as Stenum it seems like a crapshoot.