Dynesys removal

[fireyangel76]

I am going to knock on wood after reading this one. It will be 2 years in Feb since my dynesys and while I'm still activity restricted my pain is so much less. I do get the pain down to my ankle with walking more than 10 min at a time. Standing is absolutely a killer. I can't stand very long at all without leaning on something. But life is good since I can be mostly pain free when I lay down. No more mega drugs....only on occasion when I over do it.
I guess I'll consider myself lucky.
John, sorry the dynesys didn't work for you and glad to hear you have relief of the bilateral leg pain.

[Eddie G]

Maria, I stopped flying a few years ago. I tried first class but on some planes the seats dont recline and I spent one flight kneeling on the floor with my elbows on the seat and that cost me over $800.

I take Amtrak now and I get a sleeper cabin. I LOOVVE IT! The handicap cabin is big and I can lay down the whole trip. It only takes 20+ hours to get to Florida and it's alot cheaper than flying and dealing with security. I enjoy the food too.

One time I was flying down to Fla. and I was in the security line. I made the mistake of putting my boarding pass into the plastic bin. RED FLAG!!!!
RED FLAG!!! TERRORIST TERRORIST!!!! They pulled me aside and asked me to sit down and raise my legs. I told them I could not because I have severe back pain. That did not go over very well and they made me stand and unbuckle my belt. As it was unbuckled my big baggy shorts dropped to the floor...sans underwear. As I stood there with my twig & berries exposed to everyone, the security guard realized I was not bending over to pick up my pants so he had to do it for me. I thought it was funny but they didn't. They sent me on my way telling me I was lucky there were no police around. I think they were lucky I didn't sue them. That was the last time I flew.

I dont have those problems when I take the train.

Dont wait until your twigs & berries are exposed. Next time TAKE THE TRAIN!

[johnb]

Firey,

Yes, that pain was no fun. The surgical pain I have now is no fun either but I'm getting better every day. I've had some very bad stabbing pains that have been the worst pains I've ever felt. After telling the surgeon's office about it and getting the brush off (that is their MO), I went to the emergency room. I know my body and these were "red flag" pains. Then my surgeon tells me after the emergency room visit that because of the way the dynesys screws are angled out a little bit (see zimmer surgery instructions), he had to split a muscle a little more than he would have normally preferred, to extract the S1 screws. If I had a solid fusion mass there that muscle that has been split would probably been immobolized but my spine is moving again and that muscle that had been split was angry. Those major stabbing pains have subsided. Only time will tell how I'll feel long term but I'm happy to have no major complications considering I've had my back splayed open twice within the last two years.

I didn't have that kind of leg pain before the dynesys. In fact, my surgeon didn't correlate my symptoms with my MRI. He didn't even give me the MRI abstract before doing the surgery. If the surgeon doesn't correlate your symptoms with the MRI, proceed cautiously. In my case, L4/L5 had a bulge on the left that was removed at the same time the dynesys was installed. Before surgery, my leg pains would alternate from leg to leg like it was moving from one side to the other. So what was causing my leg pains on the right? There wasn't any bulge there. My surgeon should have looked into that since my symtoms didn't correlate with the MRI. I've since learned probable causes that have to do with dynamic stenosis. If you are interested in understanding the weaknesses of the dynesys, look at the later generations of dynamic stabalization devices as they look to build on the design of the dynesys but improve on its weaknesses.

Eddie, I like the sense of humor that you keep despite all the crud that you've had to endure. Keep up the good fight. You are an inspiration to us all.

Oh Yeah, I forgot to mention that physician assistant at the ER who initially talked to me has an artificial disc after I asked him if he ever had back problems. I asked him how it was working for him and he sort of shrugged and said he had hoped for a a better resolution of his problems. He was working and standing on a hard floor all day so that says something. He could have been writhing in pain on a gurney like me
John

[fireyangel76]

John,
You mention the angle of your pedicle screws....All 4 of mine are angled different, so much so I asked my surgeon if I had tweaked them. He said it is just the way he had to put them in. I have much more back pain since Dynesys. I mainly had right leg pain before which correlated to my herniation at L5-S1. I also have a buldge at L4-L5 and some stenosis, typical stuff.
So I think you are saying taking out the Dynesys was worse then putting it in. I have asked my surgeon for a new MRI on lumbar spine. I have not had one since Dynesys. He told me it isn't justified even with my continued back and leg pain. I am just tired of dealing with the medical system right now so as long as I can do some basic functions in life I will not push. There is other things to so in life then go to medical appts....really tired of those appts.


I was looking in to amtrack for traveling as opposed to flying. How much does the sleeper cost? I have never been on the train but I have heard the food is good and is included if you have a roomette/sleeper.

[johnb]

Firey,

I was able to locate a zimmer surgical manual online and have it saved on my computer. I can forward it to you if you send me a PM with your email. The bottom line is that the dynesys is primitive like the model T of cars. The evidence supporting the dynesys is scant and not enough to justify using for many surgeons. Another surgeon told me there is "no proof that it works." Other surgeons see it as an extra product to sell. Its no secret that zimmer spine paid the DOJ as a result of someone on the inside blowing the whistle on them for paying doctors kickbacks. I mean, the FDA hasn't even approved the dynesys as a stand alone becuase there is not enought proof that it works. If you still have paperwork, you will probably see that it was billed as a posterior fusion. That was so the surgeon could get paid for putting it in. Insurance companies don't cover it. I'm not even sure there are CPT codes established for it yet. That's great that it can be taken out but there isn't proof that it works and much less of the effect what happens after it is installed, left in for a year, then taken out. So when surgeons say that it can be taken as a "selling point" and yes, we are being sold this stuff in the same manor a used car salesman sometimes operates, they don't tell you that there aren't studies on what happens after it is removed so that selling point is flawed when you dig into the details.

This article written by a Aaron Filler references the dynesys. The study by Grob is on the dynesys though the dynesys isn't mentioned by name. Is There An Ethical Crisis in Spinal Surgery? : OUPblog

Yes, I've had more pain and discomfort with taking out the screws than with putting them in. However, every spine and corresponding symptom is individual to the patient. I'm just glad to have that crap taken out of back to be honest and don't have to worry about screw loosening and failure of an unproven medical device that squeezing my nerves to begin with.

My dynesys installation was good. I've seen the scans, had them reviewed by other surgeons, and the placement was good. My surgeon is very experienced and recognized in my region to have a very high level of surgical skill. All this hardware on the market isn't worth much if it can't be put in correctly by a skilled surgeon. Surgical skill does vary between surgeons. My prediction is the dynesys will go the way of the dinosaur as better stabalization devices are developed. Having a cord that is stiff and allows no flexion and spacers that get soft after being implanted and do not resist extension is garbage. As no reason was given to why I developed the nerve problems after the dynesys I was left to do my own research and it turns out I was right. Once those spacers soften up, they do not resist compression and the dynesys cord is stiff so you can't use flexion to open up the disc space. When you lose disc height, you have to use some spinal flexion to keep the disc space open. You can't restore lordosis or put the spine into too much extension if you don't restore disc space by restoring disc height or hollow out the foramen a bit via decompression. However, remove to much bone and you have instability. Its a tough balance that the surgeon has to follow. My L5/S1 is low but not painful. It has stabalized and was not painful on the discogram despite looking black and crummy on the MRI. My facets have enlarged at that level so I don't have the foramen space I used to but it is still enough for the nerves as long as I'm not locked down into extension.

Good luck Firey, If I had a better support system around me (I'm single and live with my 74 year old mom) I'd maybe considered a fusion but I missed my window when I made the mistake of not being better informed and choosing the dynesys. It would have been irresponsible to have a major fusion surgery and expected my mom to pick up the support duties and god forbid if something had went wrong. MY mom would have had a heart attack.

John