Summer of surgery ahead!

[Maria]

I may have misunderstood as well. Thought one surgery planned for 5/18 was fusion and second surgery to be ADR 8 weeks later at L5S1.

Maybe you meant ADR at L5S1 and surgery later at L4 if necessary?

Or maybe I just got it confused completely.. if so, my apologies!

[on pause]

Originally Posted by Maria

I may have misunderstood as well. Thought one surgery planned for 5/18 was fusion and second surgery to be ADR 8 weeks later at L5S1.

Maybe you meant ADR at L5S1 and surgery later at L4 if necessary?

Or maybe I just got it confused completely.. if so, my apologies!

No, you understood it correctly. The L4/L5 is a newer injury (sort of) causing me a great deal of pain down the right side of my back and leg. All my other injuries were on the left side before, the worst caused by L5/S1 nearly 3 years ago. The pain I feel down the left leg is from a lot of nerve damage, and given the extent of damage and amount of time I've had it with zero change indicates to every doctor I've spoken to that it is permanent damage. The idea was to "fix" L4/L5 first, as L5/S1 may be a lost cause anyways?

[on pause]

I first want to say a huge THANK YOU to everyone who has replied to my posts. You have given me a lot to think about, and though it was all incredibly overwhelming to take in, it is what I think I needed.

As of right now, I haven't canceled my surgery appointment, but I have a pretty good feeling I will in the coming weeks. I now have a lot of doubts about the procedures that were going to happen, and I refuse to go into surgery with any doubts. Years ago I had a discetomy with someone I thought was an excellent surgeon. I now question his abilities as I reherniated one of those discs 3 weeks later, and many of my later problems, mainly the nerve damage were made all the worse by the amount of scar tissue I had after that surgery. I now know I need to be 100% certain of what I am getting into.

I guess now my question is where do I begin?

I feel so in the dark about how to proceed with regards to finding a good doctor who will do what I need. I know many people on here have had wonderful success overseas, mainly in Germany. My father is from Austria originally, so communication with anyone in Germany would not be a problem for us. I would love to find someone here in Ontario willing to do the operation, one to make it easy with insurance, but also to recover at home vs. in a hotel room.

I will make a new thread as well, but if anyone could PM me or reply about their experiences with ADR surgery both in Ontario, Canada or overseas as well. Some things specifically I'm wondering are:
-Has anyone found a good doctor in Ontario that will do ADR on L4/L5?
-Does any doctor in Ontario do ADR on both L4/L5 AND L5/S1?
-How long does it take to get in to have surgery with Dr. Bertagnoli?
-How much does it cost?
-Does OHIP cover any of it?
-How long do you have to stay in Germany to recover?

One good thing about if it were overseas travel, my mom is a flight attendant, so the flights there and back would be cheap, and we would also receive a discount on hotels as well. So I would only need to know the actual cost of the surgery, not the travel arrangements as well.

I'm sure I will think of more questions for you all. Please bear with me and thanks again so much for all your support and concern! Without you I have have made a terrible decision!!!

Christina

PS. Mark, I will PM you with my contact info and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

[Maria]

Hi Christina,
I think doubts are healthy and so is questioning something as big as what you're contemplating re your spine. Sorry to have created more of a stir in your head though.. hope in the long run you find the questions you're pondering more helpful and ultimately to your benefit.

I had several consults w/Dr.Bertagnoli tho via correspondence and utilized globalpatientnetwork (Mark's help) tho back in '03 and '05. I was looking at possibly 2 to 3 level ADR and I don't think prices are the same currently so I'd rather someone more recent reply to you on this.

I will say this you are fortunate with the flight attendant Mom re travel discounts/hotels and then with your Dad being able to speak the language if you're going to Germany. Sounds like wonderful advantages!

I really am sorry to create any more distress for you though hopefully whatever questions and further consults you pursue will help you with your decision. Even with 100% faith in your decision it's not going to guarantee an outcome however you'll feel better knowing you really did your research and checked things out no matter the outcome.

Re canceling your surgery~ if you're at all uncomfortable doing this just say you want to postpone it for whatever reason which is essentially cancelling it however maybe it's got a "softer" sound to it. At least that's what I did while gathering further opinions. Good luck!! Keep us posted!

[on pause]

I just want to say thanks again for pointing me in the right direction! I honestly don't know how my life may have turned out if I hadn't found this forum.

I have canceled both surgeries planned for this summer. I have an appointment with a doctor near Toronto for May 13th. I called and spoke with his secretary, and he has apparently done 2 level ADRs before, and has done over 130 ADR surgeries. I am hopeful he is up to my standards and can give me the surgery I need. It would be really convenient as he is only 20mins from my home!

I have also been given referrals to two doctors in Quebec, based on the information given to me by a member here. They are both apparently excellent doctors and have done many ADR surgeries before. Not sure yet when those appointments will be however.

I've discussed this issue in great detail with my parents, and they are willing to pay to go to Germany to see Dr. B if necessary. They would rather see me have the surgery I need with someone who has results to back it up than someone under-experienced here. At this point I will not accept anything less than a 2 level ADR. Luckily for us now, the Canadian dollar is very high and the Euro is low (comparatively speaking), so this summer would be a good time to go if that is what had to happen.

I do have a few questions though that don't pertain to now but for my future. I'm only 23 and do eventually plan to have a family. I was told a long time ago by a doctor that low back pain and and injuries made it more difficult to get pregnant later on. Is this true?
I was also wondering if having the ADR surgery (or a fusion for that matter) would create any possible pregnancy complications down the road, whether it be from scar tissue, the device itself, or if someone with terrible low back pain can handle carrying a child?

I have no intentions of doing anything soon, but I would like to know what I may face if and when I decide to start a family.

Thanks

Christina

[Maria]

Hi Christina,
I'm glad to hear you're checking into some other consultations/opinions re ADR if you're a candidate. I think for your age that's a better option to investigate. It's not to say that any spine surgery comes with guarantees re outcome however at least best to get a few more opinions and try to make the best decision possible given information you obtain.

I've seen some women that had ADR come back on this forum and others reporting uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery so I think providing the outcome of the surgery is good there shouldn't be anything to prevent pregnancy/delivey and ability to care for your baby/child (this is a big part of having kids w/bad back).

I've also seen women who have had fusions report getting pregnant and doing Ok so it's really depending on the outcome of the surgery it seems.

I'm one of those persons that didn't have kids because of my back. I injured my low back in my late 20's at work. I went thru all kinds of back pain until my early 30's until I felt I finally had to have back surgery (used to work in Neurosurgery). First discectomy had a pretty good outcome but it lead to the dominoe affect and not too long later had surgery on disc level above which failed miserably. Back then there weren't good options available here in the states re spine surgery and I hadn't really heard anything about artificial discs in Europe (the early 90's). I was counting on that 2nd surgery to work because I too wanted to have children however after the failed surgery the pain was so unmanagable and pain meds weren't really given back then that I decided to not have a family. I couldn't have taken care of anyone back then and would venture to say even now it would be difficult.

Then again there are women with really bad back issues that do have families. If one does I would advocate having a strong support system around you that can help with taking care of your baby/child when you cannot.

All that being said hopefully things will work out well for you once you decide with whom you want to have surgery/what type.

Wishing you the best with upcoming opinions.

[dshobbies]

Quite honestly, ADRs are relatively new to the world and performed mostly on post-baby women. (Men don't count in this scenerio). However, of those woman who we know about, post ADR pregnancies posed no special problems. Carrying an infant/toddler on their hips, along with the bending of picking up and putting down, not to mention floor time - also appeared to go smoothly. Even single level fusion seemed to pose no additional problems.

I would think pain would hamper everything - pregnancy, delivery and toting, not to mention the quick temper that goes along with increased pain.

I'm glad you're rethinking your surgical plan and as far as future pregnancies, should be fine, as long as your surgical outcome is positive, based on limited history available.

I do wish you every luck and I'm glad M&P are willing to pay for the best if need be.

Dale