First post, advice needed!

[rbrown]

Originally Posted by Maria

Can often happen when spine is guarding or protecting itself. Torn ligaments, tendons, muscles take a long time to heal. Maybe a strain.

Disc material leaking out on a nerve (as in bulging disc) can create muscle spasms and usually does..

Try getting an injection of Toradol 60mg IM (Nsaid) if no known allergy to medication and no probs with kidneys. This often helps with muscle spasms pretty quickly and can break up a cycle that might take weeks to otherwise alleviate.

I had electric stim therapy and cold laser and did well with it though that was long ago and took many sessions.

Does a bulged disc necessarily mean leaking disc material? If a disc is leaking will it stop leaking at some point? Would the Toradol injection still help even after ive been on two cycles of Prednisone? Can my primary Dr give me the Toradol or does that have to be a specialist?

[Maria]

Good reference is ChiroGeek's Home Page
You can get answer to many of your questions there.
Bulging discs when actively flared up are usually leaking some disc material. I have had flare ups for years with regard to leaking disc material from disc bulge. This is even after a discectomy at L4 and L5S1. Meaning the discs rebulged after surgery. I have not had fusion surgery or ADR. I think with either of these surgeries the complete disc is removed. While in theory this should mean no more pain from disc it doesn't mean there won't be pain from other sources.
I have had 2 spine surgeries and had 10 years worth of Epidural steroid injections and have taken a low dose opioid pain medicine now 1x/day for 12 years and Toradol injections help greatly to alleviate muscle spasms for me. it helped many people I know with back pain from spasms and most recently my ex has had an acute bout of back pain with spasms so I told him to go to Urgent Care and get an injection of Toradol and it helped him immediately. He still has some discomfort but he couldn't move at all hardly for the pain until he got the shot.
My primary care doc can give this injection, urgent care doctor, ER doctor, Pain Management doctor, etc. It is a Non steroidal anti-inflammatory medication. It may not be given if one is taking oral Nsaids on a daily basis, or one has an allergy to the medication or has problem with his or her kidney function.

[rbrown]

Maria?
Would it still make sense for the Toradol if two cycles of Prednisone havent taken the spasms away completely?

[Maria]

I imagine it might help although I'm not sure what your pain generators are and maybe the bulging disc or spasms isn't creating your current problem? Really I cannot say. If it were me I'd approach your primary care doctor about getting a Toradol injection (or whoever prescribed the steroids). It can't hurt to ask and even if one doctor turns down the notion then approach another.

Steroids are very potent anti-inflammatory meds but I don't like to use unless in an epidural steroid injection. I try to avoid taking them orally and preferably at all.

[jsewell]

Randy i am glad you sent your materials to MARK , he is the best.
About the bulging discs, i have had some that were bulging and they did not show any signs of leaking when i had the discography. so it is hard to say. Prednisone is a very strong anti inflammatory , you just have to really be careful not to take too much as it can shut down your adrenal glands from making cortisol as they haven't needed to when on prednisone. That is a nightmare i have experienced. you don' t want to go there. i am surprised someone gave you 2 doses so close together.
you said the chiro had not had any luck helping much the last few times. I am sorry about that.
I really don't have any advice at this point. Just hope your week goes well.
judy

[rbrown]

I plan to follow up with some sort of second opinion with a Orthopedic specialist (spine). I'm asking for another MRI since my back got so much worse since the scan I had in April. Everything feels really weird and confusing. I'm not having terrible pain as of now but have to be super careful
or I will have a spasm. Cant lift or do much but can walk more and stretch some and excercise a little. My wife still has to help me dry off my feet and lower legs after the shower. I saw the Chiro again today. He tried again to get some adjustments out of my low back but it didnt move. It hurt and I was much worse after the visit for all of today and tonight.

I dont know how or if to follow up with pain management (Dr. Seltzer). He wanted to give me facet nerve block injections but I'm not having leg pain or even the intense painful spasms. Hopefully Mark will have some advice for my next logical step along with the other help you guys are giving (Maria, Judy) thanks!

[Maria]

I'd say if you need your wife's help to dry off your feet then you definitely should be seeing a spine specialist in terms of a consult.

I would think a doctor would order some muscle relaxers for you to take when you start to get really tight or painful and see whether that helps ease off the spasms. That's usually first line medicine along with Nsaids that a regular Primary Care doctor would prescribe or maybe an Ortho.

I've never been to a chiropractor in my whole history of back probs. I did go to Osteopathic doctors (D.O.) because they can do manipulations and are actual physicians so therefore can prescribe as well.

With regard to your PM doctor he should adjust whatever he's considering doing based on what you tell him your symptoms are now. If he persists in the same treatment for symptoms you no longer have then you might want to consider going to someone else. Injections are where the $ is at with PM however if you are seeing an HMO PM that's probably not the case.

I still think that when you are in spasms if you got a shot of Toradol which is so benign compared to many other things that can be suggested that would help a great deal to at least break up the cycle. It's ever so much more effective than the oral medication Toradol (non steroidal anitinflammatory medication).

Also I do recommend reading that website of Chirogeek's because that is incredibly informative and even looking at your old MRI report you can read about what you have on that and what Chirogeek has written and maybe you will see where some of your symptoms may be coming from and/or things might make a bit more sense to you. I will admit that the beginning of the spine journey can be very confusing because one wonders what on earth is going on and what it could possibly be or what do these symptoms mean and it's all very scary. Educating yourself as best you are able will help you to ask better questions when you do see the doctors and to get better answers out of them and possibly ones you will better understand. I always write my questions down before going in to see my Ortho, I write down what he replies and I ask for a copy of my MRI or xrays or any tests I have done. I like to get a copy of his notes as well but being that my case was WC (Worker's Comp) that doesn't usually happen. If I am referred to a specialist or 2nd opinion surgeon tho I do always ask for a copy of his notes/recommendation.

Good luck with your continuing spinal journey. Sounds like you have to do a lot of guarding or protecting your movements for fear of setting off painful spasms or that you are still pretty locked up.