Advice on annular tear and mri results

[Magrego]

yeh I freaked out when my friend bought me 2 beers it must make me worse to be honest. I thought I couldn't walk at one stage i freaking out the first flair up I couldn't sit down for 5 mins. I didn't even know flair ups was a part of getting better but I have had them for over a week now. If this is a part of getting better I dont care about pain to be honest as long as it doesn't last like this forever being an architect I need to sit down and draw on pc. So are flair ups sharper pains in your neck and back? it is all i worry bout because it was no where like this before and I have no cover and can't afford this already

thanks heaps for the advice I will try to read some more on the site you posted. So do you think a chiropractor could be best to try instead of PT? I have second opinion on Saturday just to give me peace of mind.

[Maria]

I worked with osteopathic doctors (D.O. doctor of osteopathic medicine) and when my back was at it's worst before I had any surgery I only let osteopaths do soft tissue manipulation (sort of like stretching) on me and NOT high velocity (like crunching).

My pain was in my low back only for many years. I injured myself when I was 28 transferring a patient from a gurney to a post op bed (RN). At the time the CT scan revealed 3 bulging discs tho later thru the years prior to my first low back surgery in '89 MRIs revealed annular tear at L3 and disc bulges at L4 and L5S1.

So until about 1998 or so I had symptoms only in my low back. After this period I started having some cervical symptoms. I have DDD in my lumbar and cervical spine and remaining disc bulge at L4 and annular tear at L3 and L5S1 finally autofused on it's own after many years. I have a disc bulge at C5/6 and DDD in 3 cervical vertebrae.

My back and neck now trade off re painful flare ups and episodes. I don't think flare ups mean one is getting better actually and for me I've generally come to believe it is disc material leaking out on a nerve creating nerve pain and muscle spasms or could be the other way 'round.

It's just a matter of how debilitated I was with my pain, how often my back went out back when I was working, how long I was out of work or in bed recovering and so forth that lead me to a surgical solution.

Re seeing a Chiropractor.. personally during an acute flare up I never let anyone touch me as I couldn't even get out of bed. Though lately I've found if I can make my way to an Urgent Care center, GP or Pain Management office that an injection of Toradol 60mg Intramuscularly helps me tremendously with alleviation of pain from muscle spasms.

I think the "unknown" re the spine makes anyone freak out and then take away our ability to make a living ... that's very scary. I had gone so long working with pain and probs I finally had to stop working and applied for what we call here in the states Social Security Disability and Long Term Disability from my current employer. However this was 20 years after my original injury and after 2 spine surgeries with a latter one that failed in '92 actually making me worse off.

Currently while I still think that spine surgery is a gamble of sorts I do think there are more options out there and some very highly skilled surgeons should one come to the conclusion that surgery is a must.

If you can see one of your doctors and ask for a shot of Toradol however that might be something that will help break you out of the pain cycle. Maybe if you're not already taking some oral muscle relaxers you could benefit by them and ??? not sure what else you're doing re your flare ups.

A few glasses of wine seems to help relax me when I'm really bad off as well at least enough to sleep tho I best be in a good position for sleep with cervical pillow around my neck and back in a decent position as to fall sleep in semi drunken stupor with bod all over the place can bring on a heap more of back/neck pain!! oops of course I must include the disclaimer about mixing drugs and alcohol being a "no no".. don't do as I do.. do as I say (or so the saying goes?) take care!!!

[Magrego]

Yes it is scarey to not have a career when i only just finished my degree with no savings. I am very sorry to hear that surgery had made it worse and you live like this for the last 20 years or more. Could you sit down for long? i noticed if i dont sit down for a couple of days it does get better. Then if i sit down again I can last a little longer but it does come back very fast. Sitting down gives me flair ups. any suggestions because I really like to sit down I cant even take my girl out for dinner now

I will try my best to get fixed but am starting to face I am going to have to try to live the best I can for now. I honestly dont know who would employ me now but hey thats another bowl of fish and might start working standing up. I might set up a workstation with my screen on the wall I would never give up my passion thats for sure hehe hope they bring out programmable matter very soon so i wont need to work on a pc lol

Thanks again for the advice

[mmglobal]

Magrego... sorry about all your troubles. I had a client with no chair in her office. she had a standing workstation for years.

Finding restaurants with standing workstations may be tough... I hope she's understanding!

Alll the best,

mark

[Magrego]

I noticed you said 'My back and neck now trade off re painful flare ups and episodes. I don't think flare ups mean one is getting better actually and for me I've generally come to believe it is disc material leaking out on a nerve creating nerve pain and muscle spasms or could be the other way 'round. '

I actually believe this true as I read this before. I was much better off before physio. Will this leaking stop as i have never experienced this pain before.

and what do you mean by 'it could be the other way around? also My tear must not have leaked previously and now it has. anyway I will have a second opinion tomorrow off a really trustworthy gp who attends seminars etc. I will fill you in on what he says if I understand

[Magrego]

yeh my girlfriend is understanding and we even share a single bed with my back lol I squash her against the wall now so she is pretty understanding she has also paid for my medical amazing considering I told her she does not have to stay with me anymore cause I don't want to hold her back in life. she also puts up with my complaining which I havn't really done before this experience so I am great full. I could write a whole essay on how good my girlfriend is but you get the point.

I was also wondering about this workstation. was she using a computer screen on the wall? I was thinking of doing this because I miss my architecture . I can sketch by hand but I love to 3d model realistic images also. I was actually learning the program they use to make Iron man 2 called modo. I might have a look around for a standing work station to keep me sane instead of lying in this bed I find standing feels even better than lying down because the pain gets worse when lying down too. anyway I will tell you what the doc recommended. I am sure he will send me to another specialist. He cares a lot about his patients I heard from my friend. This doctor doesn't usually see any new patients because he is so busy, so i am lucky my friend spoke to him for me I will ask about those shots because the painkillers arnt working anymore

I feel I have learnt a lot from this forum. Thanks again and all the best to find relief from your own injuries.

[Maria]

There are many modified type of stations on the market tho I just put my monitor up on a box and keyboard on the desk until the company I worked for paid for a standing station. As I said I worked that way for the last 5 years I was employed.

I avoided sitting for years because after my 2nd back surgery which failed that position was the most uncomfortable and seemed to bring about acute flare ups. And actually the pain was just chronically bad and sitting hurt like hell.

Lately tho since about 2005/6 I've done better and supposedly I've autofused at L5S1. Another thing that helped me in the interim is when I started lumbar epidural steroid injections back in 2001. I could sit after I'd get one of those tho the duration is only for about an hour.

Re leaking disc material causing muscle spasms.. or for whatever reason like too much sitting or bad spinal positioning creating muscle spasms and then maybe that tweaking the disc by all the spasming tho I usually think it tends to be the other way 'round. Not sure which is first sometimes tho...

Be glad you have an understanding gf as that is quite nice. She must really love you so don't tell her to go away! Altho I know what you mean about not wanting to hold her back ... it's the kind of stuff that runs thru our heads when we're all messed up and feel so limited and self worth is diminished.

Dine in the bar part of a restaurant where the seats are higher and one can stand while still being at a table or counter! There are solutions for near everything as long as you can get yourself out of the house!

Ask me how I manage to fly...

[dshobbies]

Magrego,

Forgive me if you think I'm overstepping here or reading wrong between the lines. As I see it, you're living with disabling pain but you seem reluctant to 'find your cure' if there is such a thing.

You're very young and living this way is a waste of your time and life. Getting another opinion from a gp is not the same thing as a specialist who knows spines and can definitively tell you what is going on and give you a plan to fix it (unless this step is necessary for insurance reasons).

Chiropractic will more than likely make you much worse unless he's a DDD or herniated disc specialist but even then, I'd be very weary.

I'm not a doctor and have absolutely no medical expertise but... the tingling and or numbness you feel is/are probably nerves protesting something touching your spinal cord, regardless of the cause. This should be given priority. Nerve damage is unpredictible and can become permanant. I'm also not suggesting surgery is your only option but if necessary, most of us have one shot to get it right so choosing your doctor carefully is the highest priority.

To show you what can go wrong, my chiro put me into an emergency surgery situation. My highly respected neuro surgeon offered no options in my surgery and only post surgery did he tell me the downfalls... and never explained the risks involved with my second surgery.

Magrego, I realize my words are scary and that's not my intent but you do need to take charge of your care. You need to educate yourself in exactly what's going on both in your lumbar and cervical spines and find out the possible effective treatments for both. You either need to find the absolute best doctors in your area or like many of us, travel to those who are tried and true.

Mark basically told me the same things but over the course of several phone conversations instead of bluntly on a forum page. Please feel free to call Mark - GPN Artificial Disc Replacement ADR but please take control by learning as much as you can. Suffering in this much pain and this disabled is not the way to live, not if you can do something about it. Whether you want the postion or not, you are your own best advocate.

Again, my apologies if I said more than I should have.

Dale

[Magrego]

I want people who read this too know if you get worse from physio please get a second opinion. I was being tricked and manipulated to give more pain aggravating my nerves or had no clue what they are doing. I am very disappointed in the fact so called professionals will take advantage of their patients to have their injuries ongoing. also the surgeon who overlooked everything was probably his drinking buddy down the pub. good luck and thank you to those who care. The major nerve pain is due to the physio and I know it because ever since I attended his practice I became 80 % worse. He overlooked simple stretching techniques saying it was my discs. amateur physio or pro con artist you decide. but the doctor who solved my problems in 45 minutes was a fantastic gp. I feel really stupid now, although I was in a lot of pain stressing for a very good reason.

kind regards magrego

[Maria]

Generally here in the states the conservative route for an acute back prob is initally rest w/ice and or heat, some nonsteroidal antiinflammatory meds, and some PT if still feeling badly tho getting better. The initial PT eval is an assessment of the individual and their history then some passive stretching (done to the patient usually or assisted by the PT) and heat packs, ultrasound which will advance over the next few weeks to some specific exercises tho still usually starts out with the stretching and ends with a heat pack/rest.

If PT fails or one feels worse during PT it's considered "failed" and is stopped. So it's very common here to have PT as part of the initial treatment for something like an annular tear as long as the degree isn't so bad that one is in severe pain horrific pain going into the initial appt.

It's very common for disc bulges to be exaccerbated by PT. Sometimes it's overzealous and sometimes not~ just seems like one wrong move tho is probably that whatever is going on has just reached a level of "one more thing" to set it off.

I'm glad you got your problem addressed tho be careful as your annular tear can still lead to incredibly painful episodes or periods or it could just be "there" and not really bother you that much. That's sort of what my L3 annular tear did. However I suspect that my L4 and L5S1 disc had tears that progressed on further to bulges that were terribly problematic.

Over the years I just learned myself what exaccerbates my probs and what doesn't, what level of exercise and type I can do and what I can't. I make sure that PT's are very careful with my back tho even when trying to work on other areas like helping my right knee recover from 2 surgeries my low back probs were greatly exaccerbated. Just happened.

Good luck. If you've not checked out that chirogeek webpage please do so as that's got so much good information there re annular tears, disc bulges and other back probs it really gives one a good idea of what is going on.

Hope you continue to recover and feel much better! Keep us posted!

[cherylstewart67]

hello magrego, i have got 16 months to pay on a jetta $381 a month or i can trade it in and lease a elantra for $232 per month for 36 months. but i am afraid to live and enjoy anything for fear i will have to quit working and nto be able to drive anyway. i feel like i should seel my jetta since it worth more than the pay offf and just stay home and pop pills or drink one of the two.