runner's surgery blog, L4/5, 2008

[Kathy]

K,
This sucks, so sorry. The same thing happened to me, 6 months after the first wreck. Same thing, sorry to file on insurance; but you just re-hurt me (I was actually feeling better as I had just had injections the week before). Because of the second accident, it let the first one off the hook for anything beyond that point. My attorney said it is called an 'intervening accident' and that the second person is now liable for everything beyond that. I had an MRI after the second one, that showed the L4/5 tear, so it did cause new damage. It makes you just want to choke the person that hit you, knowing that you are going to be suffering more because of their carelessness.

Glad you have your discogram scheduled, hopefully no new damage to the back and you can find out what is wrong. Will be praying for you and your surgeon, Kathy

[runner]

Thanks,
Justin, Cathy and Kathy,

It was pretty funny today when I took the minivan to get an estimate on repairs and the little "tap or bump" actually imprinted the lady's license plate into my bumper.
Still sore today but better than yesterday but I rested most of the afternoon.
Pretty soon will be disco time and I am not quite ready to dance.
Talk to you later,

[dshobbies]

Sometimes, even seemingly minor accidents cause major injuries. I'm glad you went to the ER if for nothing other than peace of mind. I agree with avoiding trips there, I hate it but it does serve a purpose.

Your disco will hopefully be definititve and you'll have a more complete picture. I wish you good luck,

Keep us posted, Dale

[runner]

Oh now, I am all upset and don't know what to think.
I had a lot of pain during the test, but all I could say was where it was and it was "moderate". I never say that!
How stupid am I?
I wish they had given me a 0-10 pain scale. Here I am a person and I don't know how to describe pain. I did raise one of my legs when I felt bad pain.
It hurt but unless it is unitended child birth, it is not a 10/10. I didn't have a 10/10 with my first discogram before my ADR surgery in 2008.
This one, today's, also hurt like my back pain hurts and I had some leg pain too and hip pain.
I think I failed my test.
All the pain doc could say afterwards when I asked him was that he had to put a lot of pressure in the disc to produce pain. He said the pain wasn't "impressive". "See what the CT shows."
OMG. I told him moderate to me means 7-9 pain but he didn't really listen and now I am wondering what the heck is wrong with my back?
I am wondering if there is any hope of a cure.

The anesthesiologist, who put me out with the Propofol, then gave me 60 mg? Toradol IV before the pain doc injected the discs with the dye. Does that have any effect?
I was in pain ( a lot) after the test and then during the CT too. Now I am just a frozen back as I have my giant ice pack on my back (I also was given 10 mg Percocet).

This disco was different than my first one of course.
However, this "whole" pain episode has been different. I have just as much pain but it is a different quality and it started differently. I felt searing pain back in August and then I had some back pain, leveled off, but the worse was the leg pain and then my back pain has slowly been increasing until it is as the same or worse than the leg pain. Plus the stupid numbness.

I wonder if I am crazy. I told my husband if I don't have a painful disc, that means there is probably nothing I can do about the pain and I would rather die than live like this.

I got the CD of the CT and looked at it. I compared it to my disco on 10-2007, but both disc nuclei look different. Nothing looks like it is outside of the disc and I am confused because on the CD disc, it looks like L5/S1 appears first and then L4/5 (easy to spot because of the ADR) and then L3/4. Looking at it that way, L3/4 looks like a mushroom cloud and L5/S1 looks like a crumpled up piece of paper that is oblong. They both look contained.
I have no clue as to what is going on.
My husband doesn't understand, I was telling him that the cutting edge treatments for DDD are 5-10 years away. He was like you could go into a trial.
I haven't been imagining this pain, WHat the he** is going on? I am going to see the pain doc in one week, but i already feel it is a lost cause. If they cannot find what is causing this pain, I am going to start working out. I haven't been happy since I stopped and what the heck, this is one activity that brings me pleasure.
As for sitting, that has been killing me since mid February.
So I can't sit, maybe I can walk.
If anyone understands me, I want to run away from this back stuff.
I am sick and tired of it.
Oh, on top of it, they asked me to take off my cross necklace, that I just got at the conference, and I dropped it in my belongings bag. Well, I was so goofy when I left that I left the necklace in the belongings bag. They told my husband that they would go through the trash and try to find it.
But that just takes the cake.
My necklace is probably gone too.

runner

[Justin]

Runner,

I just logged on. I am so sorry about your day. However, I would not base if a disc is bad solely on being "contained." It can still have incredible internal disc disruption. Did you see any obvious tears (the disc not holding the dye)?

Even if you didn't describe your pain correctly, you can clarify this with your referring surgeon. 7-9/10 out of 10 is severe---a 10 is you are dead on the floor. It doesn't matter (in my book) what adjective you used to describe your pain.

What matters is if this disc is a pain generator even at increased pressure levels. Your quality of life has suffered greatly, and I know you have explained this to your surgeon and PM docs many times.

You are NOT crazy--you are living in chronic pain.

Pain is very complex and a lot of times it is tied into a very unique pathology, especially concerning back/leg pain.

Don't throw in the towel before you see your surgeon and you guys discuss your discogram in detail. By the way... even if you are a nurse, pain interferes with every aspect of your life, especially describing pain. I do stupid stuff all of the time because I'm in so much pain...I put things in the fridge that should go in the freezer and lately at home I forget if I've washed my hands 2 seconds ago and have to wash them again. My wife just stops sometimes and looks at me in utter amazement, as she has no clue what the heck I just said.

Keep your head up and feel free to email/PM me...when can even talk by phone if you like.

EDIT: the propofol does make a difference--even if it doesn't provide any analgesia it can still affect the way you may interpret pain... just an FYI

[Justin]

I told my husband if I don't have a painful disc, that means there is probably nothing I can do about the pain and I would rather die than live like this.

Runner, I know you probably don't mean this literally--more of an expression about your situation, right? I would stress this feeling to your surgeon and if you do have any "dark" feelings, please share them with someone you love (like you did with your husband) and/or seek out a professional to share such feelings with. Sorry, not trying to point this out but I've been trained to take language like this (even if it is in "passing" or in a "joking" manner) serious.

You will not be in pain forever and you will be able to do something about it. However, it is taking much, much longer than you want it too. You will find relief soon...I truly feel that in my gut, as you are turning every rock.

BTW...I am sorry about your necklace.

[runner]

Thanks Justin,

I am going to the darkside.
I did send you a PM (Please keep in mind I have had a lot of drugs today).

[phylly]

kimmers,
I just tuned in--Whahhhhhhh! It was an awful few days for you. Don't you feel like moving to Australia. you know the book, it was a no good very bad day and I think I will move to Australia. You must tell the pain doc that moderate is severe. And please don't read your own films, wait for the radiologist. This is why nurses and Drs. are bad patients. They know too much.

i have a pain therapist that woks in San Juan Capo. She is awesome and takes BC. Please PM me or call if you need her name and number. She is a wonderful lady who listened to me when I wanted to die from my pain and said the same as you about not wanting to live like I was. I could go in and sob for a whole hour. You may not mean it but you are probably feeling a bit depressed at this point and talking to an objective person could help.

I am so sorry for all your pain. When do you see Dr. Palmer/and or Dr. Pain. I m not sure that running will make things better but what the heck, the worst that could happen is back to bed for a day. I am thinking of you and sending hugs.
Phylly